• TPPA Honesty

    From Rich80105@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, February 07, 2016 23:42:20
    Another good article from Rod Oram: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will
    be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding
    themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it
    appears our current government does not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, February 07, 2016 22:46:01
    On Sunday, 7 February 2016 23:42:21 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will
    be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China.

    Oh really? Where did they say that? I call bullshit on this one.

    At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding
    themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it
    appears our current government does not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to All on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 01:36:15
    "JohnO" <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote in message news:8b7515d1-d0fe-45a0-a17b-d999b82fb66f@googlegroups.com...
    On Sunday, 7 February 2016 23:42:21 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will
    be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China.

    Oh really? Where did they say that? I call bullshit on this one.


    Just another of the trolling Rich's fairy tales JohnO. My bet is he's going
    for a Booker prize mate.

    At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding
    themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it
    appears our current government does not.


    No Rich. Once again you're confusing Labour with National.

    Pooh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 16:35:19
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will
    be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding
    themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it
    appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" (ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes.
    The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning and Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their free bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt the lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 22:19:44
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will
    be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes.
    The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning and >>Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their free >>bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt the >>lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect
    could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take your lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.
    Was your life disrupted by any protestors?
    No but many others were when idiots sat on motorway ramps
    The last time I was
    disrupted by protestors was the truck owners protest (many of the
    drivers were paid to participate) against increases in road user
    charges under Labour - organised by an ex-National MP. they clogged
    roads to a far greater extent than teh TPP protestors in Auckland
    recently. (Strangely, the truck owners did not protest when National >incresaed charges . . .)
    Neither are acceptable and your point is?

    You used to make more logical and rational arguments, Tony - is the
    heat getting to you?
    Ah well there is the rub. Once more you make disparaging personal remarks because you cannot articulate an argument. And you really cannot on this and most of your posts.
    1. You are derisive of anybody who disagrees with you.
    2. You cannot defend a Labour party that has (regretably) become incompetent. 3. You blame others for changing the subject when that is one of your on;y argumentative ploys.
    4. You accuse people of political bias (usually wrong, and always wrong in my case) whilst you continue to post political bias - how sad!
    5. My logical arguments have not changed, only your defensive reaction to them. If you detect a small (but easily forgotten by me) aggression here it is because I am saddeneed that you cannot use your intellect to see what is really happening in this country which is for almost everybody here but you a very simple truth - the party that used to stand up for the 'working man' is a shadow of its former self and that is to the detrement of us all - and yet you continue to deliver diatribes against those that see that pathetically obvious truth.
    Sad, very sad.
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to dot nz on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 16:38:34
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will
    be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it
    appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes.
    The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning and >Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their free >bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt the >lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect
    could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    Was your life disrupted by any protestors? The last time I was
    disrupted by protestors was the truck owners protest (many of the
    drivers were paid to participate) against increases in road user
    charges under Labour - organised by an ex-National MP. they clogged
    roads to a far greater extent than teh TPP protestors in Auckland
    recently. (Strangely, the truck owners did not protest when National
    incresaed charges . . .)

    You used to make more logical and rational arguments, Tony - is the
    heat getting to you?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to All on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 22:33:30
    Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> wrote: >Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At >>>>a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker >>>>in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes.
    The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning and >>>Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their >>>free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt the >>>lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect
    could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take your >lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.
    Was your life disrupted by any protestors?
    No but many others were when idiots sat on motorway ramps
    The last time I was
    disrupted by protestors was the truck owners protest (many of the
    drivers were paid to participate) against increases in road user
    charges under Labour - organised by an ex-National MP. they clogged
    roads to a far greater extent than teh TPP protestors in Auckland
    recently. (Strangely, the truck owners did not protest when National >>incresaed charges . . .)
    Neither are acceptable and your point is?

    You used to make more logical and rational arguments, Tony - is the
    heat getting to you?
    Ah well there is the rub. Once more you make disparaging personal remarks >because you cannot articulate an argument. And you really cannot on this and >most of your posts.
    1. You are derisive of anybody who disagrees with you.
    2. You cannot defend a Labour party that has (regretably) become incompetent. >3. You blame others for changing the subject when that is one of your on;y >argumentative ploys.
    4. You accuse people of political bias (usually wrong, and always wrong in my >case) whilst you continue to post political bias - how sad!
    5. My logical arguments have not changed, only your defensive reaction to them.
    If you detect a small (but easily forgotten by me) aggression here it is >because I am saddeneed that you cannot use your intellect to see what is >really
    happening in this country which is for almost everybody here but you a very >simple truth - the party that used to stand up for the 'working man' is a >shadow of its former self and that is to the detrement of us all - and yet you >continue to deliver diatribes against those that see that pathetically obvious >truth.
    Sad, very sad.
    Tony
    Oh and by the way - your failure to acknowledge those many occasions when you are caught in a lie is noted; and your 'seething hatred' of people who are not locked into political dogma of any sort is frightening to behold because if anybody like you gets into power in this country we will need to fimd a remedy! Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to dot nz on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 17:58:31
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At >>>>a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker >>>>in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes.
    The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning and >>>Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt the >>>lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect
    could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take your >lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with
    negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement
    that are essentially a lie.

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 23:47:11
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At >>>>>a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker >>>>>in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning and >>>>Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their >>>>free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt the >>>>lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take your >>lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with >negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement
    that are essentially a lie.
    No that is your inability to understand the English language, read it again and then learn, mark and inwardly digest!

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? That would of course be a first!
    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Fred@3:770/3 to All on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 19:38:01
    On 7/02/2016 11:42 p.m., Rich80105 wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will
    be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding
    themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it
    appears our current government does not.


    Very unusual to see you out of step with the Labour party on TPP. Mind
    you, Jacinda Adern and Andrew Little are with you here so I suppose you
    have to take one side of the big debater inside the party.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to Fred on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 22:24:45
    "Fred" <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:n9ell3$r7o$3@dont-email.me...
    On 7/02/2016 11:42 p.m., Rich80105 wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will
    be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding
    themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it
    appears our current government does not.


    Very unusual to see you out of step with the Labour party on TPP. Mind
    you, Jacinda Adern and Andrew Little are with you here so I suppose you
    have to take one side of the big debater inside the party.

    Debate inside the increasingly Stalinist Labour party? MWAHAHAHA!

    Pooh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to dot nz on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 22:40:20
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:47:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At >>>>>>a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker >>>>>>in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning and >>>>>Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their >>>>>free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt the >>>>>lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take your
    lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with >>negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement
    that are essentially a lie.
    No that is your inability to understand the English language, read it again and
    then learn, mark and inwardly digest!

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? That >would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your
    decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see
    what you were doing.

    Happy now?


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 22:22:04
    "Rich80105" <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:hpglbb1s2d1c6008anmri5mhfsdfp4686e@4ax.com...
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At >>>>>a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker >>>>>in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning >>>>and
    Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their >>>>free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt >>>>the
    lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take >>your
    lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement
    that are essentially a lie.

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.

    Give up Rich. Fine to troll but Tony has put up with your bullshit and lack
    of comprehension like a true gentleman. You on the other hand continue the
    same sad abusive tactics as your glorious Labour party yet like them can't figure why they can't get higher than about 32% in the polls and desperatly delude yourself into believing all Labours losses go to the Greens. Still hopefully Labour will continue to mirror your blind faith in peoples
    stupidity and continue these election losing tactics.

    Pooh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to All on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 11:07:52
    On Wednesday, 10 February 2016 22:40:22 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:47:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At >>>>>>a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker >>>>>>in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning
    and
    Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their >>>>>free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt
    the
    lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take
    your
    lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with >>negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement
    that are essentially a lie.
    No that is your inability to understand the English language, read it again
    and
    then learn, mark and inwardly digest!

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? That >would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had)

    Laughable. Which part of "all your lying" is not a claim he lied, Dickbot?


    it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your
    decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see
    what you were doing.

    Instead of copying, and screwing it up, why not come up with an original thought of your own, Dickbot? There's a first time for everything, you know.


    Happy now?


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 13:49:47
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:47:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At >>>>>>>a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker >>>>>>>in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>>>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning >>>>>>and
    Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their >>>>>>free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt >>>>>>the
    lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take >>>>your
    lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with >>>negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement
    that are essentially a lie.
    No that is your inability to understand the English language, read it again >>and
    then learn, mark and inwardly digest!

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? That >>would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your
    decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see
    what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to assume that you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory but actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that lies, again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a trivial point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is the will of the people!



    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Mutlley@3:770/3 to Pooh on Thursday, February 11, 2016 12:15:30
    "Pooh" <richlies@hotmail.com> wrote:


    "Rich80105" <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:u91mbbpe9h2l46af9d5m8aqu9pgl68v8ho@4ax.com...
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:47:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>>>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. >>>>>>>>At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA. >>>>>>>>
    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest >>>>>>>>broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>>>>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning >>>>>>>and
    Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get >>>>>>>their
    free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt >>>>>>>the
    lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>>>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery. >>>>>I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take >>>>>your
    lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with >>>>negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement
    that are essentially a lie.
    No that is your inability to understand the English language, read it >>>again and
    then learn, mark and inwardly digest!

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? That >>>would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your
    decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see
    what you were doing.


    BULLSHIT! Tony or for that matter most posters are nowhere near as deceptive >as you Rich! Apart from that your lack of comprehension/brainwashing with >marxist dogma prevents you from realising this. Why you persist in the lie >that everyone except you lies is a sign of what a sad little trolling twit >you are Rich.

    Happy now?


    Why should Tony be happy with ANY of your lies Rich?

    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >>>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony


    Any reservations I have about the TPPA went out the door when I saw
    the great unwashed rent-a-mob last week here in Auckland and what
    they got away with..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Thursday, February 11, 2016 12:06:18
    "Rich80105" <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:u91mbbpe9h2l46af9d5m8aqu9pgl68v8ho@4ax.com...
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:47:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. >>>>>>>At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest >>>>>>>broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>>>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning >>>>>>and
    Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get >>>>>>their
    free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt >>>>>>the
    lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take >>>>your
    lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with >>>negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement
    that are essentially a lie.
    No that is your inability to understand the English language, read it
    again and
    then learn, mark and inwardly digest!

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? That >>would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your
    decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see
    what you were doing.


    BULLSHIT! Tony or for that matter most posters are nowhere near as deceptive
    as you Rich! Apart from that your lack of comprehension/brainwashing with marxist dogma prevents you from realising this. Why you persist in the lie
    that everyone except you lies is a sign of what a sad little trolling twit
    you are Rich.

    Happy now?


    Why should Tony be happy with ANY of your lies Rich?

    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 19:46:14
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At >>>>>a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker >>>>>in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning and >>>>Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their >>>>free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt the >>>>lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take your >>lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with >negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement
    that are essentially a lie.

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    Your snip of the most recent post by me is noted with a small smile!
    Here it is as a reminder
    ">You used to make more logical and rational arguments, Tony - is the
    heat getting to you?
    Ah well there is the rub. Once more you make disparaging personal remarks because you cannot articulate an argument. And you really cannot on this and most of your posts.
    1. You are derisive of anybody who disagrees with you.
    2. You cannot defend a Labour party that has (regretably) become incompetent. 3. You blame others for changing the subject when that is one of your on;y argumentative ploys.
    4. You accuse people of political bias (usually wrong, and always wrong in my case) whilst you continue to post political bias - how sad!
    5. My logical arguments have not changed, only your defensive reaction to them. If you detect a small (but easily forgotten by me) aggression here it is because I am saddeneed that you cannot use your intellect to see what is really happening in this country which is for almost everybody here but you a very simple truth - the party that used to stand up for the 'working man' is a shadow of its former self and that is to the detrement of us all - and yet you continue to deliver diatribes against those that see that pathetically obvious truth.
    Sad, very sad."
    Any response Rich?
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to Mutlley on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 19:38:41
    Mutlley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
    "Pooh" <richlies@hotmail.com> wrote:


    "Rich80105" <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>news:u91mbbpe9h2l46af9d5m8aqu9pgl68v8ho@4ax.com...
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:47:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>>>>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. >>>>>>>>>At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA. >>>>>>>>>
    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest >>>>>>>>>broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>>>>>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>>>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning >>>>>>>>and
    Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get >>>>>>>>their
    free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt >>>>>>>>the
    lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>>>>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery. >>>>>>I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take >>>>>>your
    lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with >>>>>negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement >>>>>that are essentially a lie.
    No that is your inability to understand the English language, read it >>>>again and
    then learn, mark and inwardly digest!

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? That >>>>would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your
    decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see
    what you were doing.


    BULLSHIT! Tony or for that matter most posters are nowhere near as deceptive >>as you Rich! Apart from that your lack of comprehension/brainwashing with >>marxist dogma prevents you from realising this. Why you persist in the lie >>that everyone except you lies is a sign of what a sad little trolling twit >>you are Rich.

    Happy now?


    Why should Tony be happy with ANY of your lies Rich?

    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >>>>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony


    Any reservations I have about the TPPA went out the door when I saw
    the great unwashed rent-a-mob last week here in Auckland and what
    they got away with..
    That is not at all an unusual reaction to the sort of "I don't care about the rights of others" attitude those people have. If they actually understood that they might behave differently but I doubt they have the intelligence.
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Fred@3:770/3 to All on Thursday, February 11, 2016 14:38:16
    On 10/02/2016 4:38 p.m., Rich80105 wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will
    be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding
    themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it
    appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left"
    (ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes.
    The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning and >> Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt the >> lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect
    could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    Was your life disrupted by any protestors? The last time I was
    disrupted by protestors was the truck owners protest (many of the
    drivers were paid to participate) against increases in road user
    charges under Labour - organised by an ex-National MP. they clogged
    roads to a far greater extent than teh TPP protestors in Auckland
    recently. (Strangely, the truck owners did not protest when National incresaed charges . . .)

    You used to make more logical and rational arguments, Tony - is the
    heat getting to you?

    If the TPPA is so bad,and the Labour party is so wonderful, how come the majority are against it (behind closed doors of course) Apart from
    Jacinde Adern, Andrew Little and a few who blindly lean which ever way
    the wind blows. Tell us if Clayton Cosgrove, Stuart Nash, Kelvin Davis,
    David Shearer, Phil Goff, Damien O'Connor, David Parker and even Annette
    King are against TPP (not sure about Parker). It's an honesty test,
    specially for you Rich.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to dot nz on Thursday, February 11, 2016 19:45:19
    On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:49:47 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:47:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>>>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At >>>>>>>>a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA. >>>>>>>>
    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker >>>>>>>>in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>>>>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning >>>>>>>and
    Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their >>>>>>>free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt >>>>>>>the
    lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>>>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery. >>>>>I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take >>>>>your
    lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with >>>>negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement
    that are essentially a lie.
    No that is your inability to understand the English language, read it again >>>and
    then learn, mark and inwardly digest!

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? That >>>would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your >>decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see
    what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to assume that
    you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory but >actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that lies, >again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a trivial >point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is the >will of the people!

    "All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow"- if all your
    lying is none, then the sun will still rise, Tony.

    You were the one that said The TTP is now public knowledge and the
    world has not stopped spinning": - you start with a falsehood (the TPP
    is not all public - the text is hundreds of pages long and not even
    summaries have been published with even simple anaysis in a form most
    people can read. So you start with a falsehood, then follow with
    saying that it will not do something that is entirely irrelevant, and
    that we are unliekly to affect with any political proposals or
    decisions.

    If you cannot see that the two statements are entirely analgous, then
    you are not trying very hard. I objected to your statement, but you
    could not see my problem - a very similar statement fromme brings
    outrage from you. Biassed? Of course you are.

    Have a nice day, Tony, just watch out for those spin lines; you might
    trip.


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >>>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Friday, February 12, 2016 01:29:31
    "Rich80105" <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:r4bobbpor8nbo20p79u7oktg7g2dinpl7u@4ax.com...
    On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:49:47 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:47:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA >>>>>>>>>will
    be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. >>>>>>>>>At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA. >>>>>>>>>
    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest >>>>>>>>>broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far >>>>>>>>left"
    (ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>>>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped >>>>>>>>spinning
    and
    Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get >>>>>>>>their
    free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to >>>>>>>>disrupt
    the
    lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>>>>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery. >>>>>>I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to >>>>>>take
    your
    lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with >>>>>negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement >>>>>that are essentially a lie.
    No that is your inability to understand the English language, read it >>>>again
    and
    then learn, mark and inwardly digest!

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? >>>>That
    would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your >>>decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see >>>what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to assume >>that
    you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory
    but
    actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that
    lies,
    again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a >>trivial
    point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is
    the
    will of the people!

    "All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow"- if all your
    lying is none, then the sun will still rise, Tony.

    You were the one that said The TTP is now public knowledge and the
    world has not stopped spinning": - you start with a falsehood (the TPP
    is not all public - the text is hundreds of pages long and not even
    summaries have been published with even simple anaysis in a form most
    people can read. So you start with a falsehood, then follow with
    saying that it will not do something that is entirely irrelevant, and
    that we are unliekly to affect with any political proposals or
    decisions.


    As we've onlt just got access to TPPA by your own admission Rich. What the
    hell have you been going on about for the last eighteen bloody months? Lies
    and innuendoes. Are you to stupid to wait for the facts to come out because it'll kill your stupid rants dead or are you just plain stupid?

    If you cannot see that the two statements are entirely analgous, then
    you are not trying very hard. I objected to your statement, but you
    could not see my problem - a very similar statement fromme brings
    outrage from you. Biassed? Of course you are.


    FFS dumbo. You bitch about others doing what passes for debate with you
    Rich. Yet continue to carry out the exact same tactics yourself on a daily basis. And YOU call ME a troll!

    Have a nice day, Tony, just watch out for those spin lines; you might
    trip.


    You make sure you've got your neck brace well secured so you don't break
    your neck when you do your next spin for Labour Rich.


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >>>>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to Fred on Friday, February 12, 2016 01:31:54
    "Fred" <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:n9gogq$e40$1@dont-email.me...
    On 10/02/2016 4:38 p.m., Rich80105 wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will
    be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China. At >>>> a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe
    disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding
    themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA.

    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest broker >>>> in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in
    the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we
    achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it
    appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left"
    (ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes.
    The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning
    and
    Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get their >>> free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt
    the
    lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect
    could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery.
    Was your life disrupted by any protestors? The last time I was
    disrupted by protestors was the truck owners protest (many of the
    drivers were paid to participate) against increases in road user
    charges under Labour - organised by an ex-National MP. they clogged
    roads to a far greater extent than teh TPP protestors in Auckland
    recently. (Strangely, the truck owners did not protest when National
    incresaed charges . . .)

    You used to make more logical and rational arguments, Tony - is the
    heat getting to you?

    If the TPPA is so bad,and the Labour party is so wonderful, how come the majority are against it (behind closed doors of course) Apart from Jacinde Adern, Andrew Little and a few who blindly lean which ever way the wind blows. Tell us if Clayton Cosgrove, Stuart Nash, Kelvin Davis, David
    Shearer, Phil Goff, Damien O'Connor, David Parker and even Annette King
    are against TPP (not sure about Parker). It's an honesty test, specially
    for you Rich.

    Fred it's not the wind the causes Labours change of direction. It's orders
    from the bloody unions who control Labour.

    Pooh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to All on Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:58:25
    On Thursday, 11 February 2016 19:45:25 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:49:47 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:47:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:19:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:35:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net >>>>>>dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Another good article from Rod Oram: >>>>>>>>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/76580827/Rod-Oram-TPPA-honesty-pays

    From that article:
    ". . .But our government and business leaders are insisting TPPA will >>>>>>>>be a bonanza, bigger even than our Free Trade Agreement with China.
    At
    a bare minimum they are setting themselves up for severe >>>>>>>>disappointment and serious loss of credibility. They are blinding >>>>>>>>themselves to the massive work that has yet to be done on TPPA. >>>>>>>>
    Worse, they are devaluing New Zealand's reputation as an honest
    broker
    in international negotiations. Yet that is our greatest strength in >>>>>>>>the global system. It means we get taken seriously. It means we >>>>>>>>achieve far more than a country our size should.

    TPPA damages that hard-won record. We will regret it. "

    New Zealand used to think that honesty and goof faith mattered - it >>>>>>>>appears our current government does not.
    It appears you will believe anything that someone from the "far left" >>>>>>>(ridiculous of course as is the notion of "far right" in NZ) writes. >>>>>>>The TTP is now public knowledge and the world has not stopped spinning >>>>>>>and
    Maori have not been disadvantaged and the idiot protesters can get
    their
    free
    bikkies and milk from the organisers and look for a new way to disrupt >>>>>>>the
    lives of ordinary hard working Kiwis!
    Tony

    Why you would believe that anagreement that has not yet taken effect >>>>>>could have stopped the world spinning or anyting else is a mystery. >>>>>I didn't you very silly man. I said it had not - please continue to take >>>>>your
    lessons for those folks for whom English is a second language.

    So you admit that your comment was essentially meaningless spin, with >>>>negative connotations about those protesting against the agreement >>>>that are essentially a lie.
    No that is your inability to understand the English language, read it
    again
    and
    then learn, mark and inwardly digest!

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? That >>>would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your >>decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see >>what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to assume
    that
    you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory but >actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that lies, >again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a
    trivial
    point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is the >will of the people!

    "All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow"- if all your
    lying is none, then the sun will still rise, Tony.

    You were the one that said The TTP is now public knowledge and the
    world has not stopped spinning": - you start with a falsehood (the TPP
    is not all public - the text is hundreds of pages long and not even
    summaries have been published with even simple anaysis in a form most
    people can read.

    So the full text is public then. You lie then contradict yourself in one sentence - amazing even by your standards.

    So you start with a falsehood, then follow with
    saying that it will not do something that is entirely irrelevant, and
    that we are unliekly to affect with any political proposals or
    decisions.

    At least when you spout complete gibberish like the above, nobody can tell if you lied.


    If you cannot see that the two statements are entirely analgous, then
    you are not trying very hard. I objected to your statement, but you
    could not see my problem - a very similar statement fromme brings
    outrage from you. Biassed? Of course you are.

    Incoherent gibberish.


    Have a nice day, Tony, just watch out for those spin lines; you might
    trip.


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >>>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Thursday, February 11, 2016 16:14:55
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:49:47 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    <snipped for brevity>

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? That >>>>would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your >>>decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see >>>what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to assume >>that
    you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory but >>actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that lies, >>again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a trivial >>point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is the >>will of the people!

    "All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow"- if all your
    lying is none, then the sun will still rise, Tony.

    You were the one that said The TTP is now public knowledge and the
    world has not stopped spinning": - you start with a falsehood (the TPP
    is not all public - the text is hundreds of pages long and not even
    summaries have been published with even simple anaysis in a form most
    people can read. So you start with a falsehood, then follow with
    saying that it will not do something that is entirely irrelevant, and
    that we are unliekly to affect with any political proposals or
    decisions.

    If you cannot see that the two statements are entirely analgous, then
    you are not trying very hard. I objected to your statement, but you
    could not see my problem - a very similar statement fromme brings
    outrage from you. Biassed? Of course you are.

    Have a nice day, Tony, just watch out for those spin lines; you might
    trip.


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >>>>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony
    See https://www.tpp.mfat.govt.nz/text released on 26 January.
    Rich I will keep the words nice and short - The TPP document is released in its entirety (sorry that was a long word!) as I said.
    I have not lied.
    You have lied again.
    Why do you insist on trying to defend your lies and misinformation (look it up for a short word synonym) the document is released and that is what I said and you are denying it and that makes you a liar.
    You can dress up your lie by suggesting the document has not been turned into one for dummies but it changes nothing. If you need a summary then you will have to wait, I didn't need a summary - what does that tell you?
    The document was released on 26 January!!!!!!
    Now, have you managed to absorb that fact or are you now going to be offensive again? Or are you going to say I am an internet troll because if you are I strongly suggest you look up a definition in which I gurantee you will star with distinction? Oh by the way, nothing in this thread has made me outraged, you rarely have the ability to do that.
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Rich80105@3:770/3 to dot nz on Friday, February 12, 2016 14:39:53
    On Thu, 11 Feb 2016 16:14:55 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:49:47 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    <snipped for brevity>

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? That >>>>>would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it >>>>would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your >>>>decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see >>>>what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to assume >>>that
    you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory but >>>actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that lies, >>>again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a trivial
    point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is the >>>will of the people!

    "All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow"- if all your
    lying is none, then the sun will still rise, Tony.

    You were the one that said The TTP is now public knowledge and the
    world has not stopped spinning": - you start with a falsehood (the TPP
    is not all public - the text is hundreds of pages long and not even >>summaries have been published with even simple anaysis in a form most >>people can read. So you start with a falsehood, then follow with
    saying that it will not do something that is entirely irrelevant, and
    that we are unliekly to affect with any political proposals or
    decisions.

    If you cannot see that the two statements are entirely analgous, then
    you are not trying very hard. I objected to your statement, but you
    could not see my problem - a very similar statement fromme brings
    outrage from you. Biassed? Of course you are.

    Have a nice day, Tony, just watch out for those spin lines; you might
    trip.


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >>>>>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony
    See https://www.tpp.mfat.govt.nz/text released on 26 January.
    Rich I will keep the words nice and short - The TPP document is released in its
    entirety (sorry that was a long word!) as I said.
    And even now the government is refusing to answer questions about it -
    the wording is not at all clear in many places . . ..

    I have not lied.
    You have lied again.
    Why do you insist on trying to defend your lies and misinformation (look it up >for a short word synonym) the document is released and that is what I said and >you are denying it and that makes you a liar.
    I did not deny that the text of the agreement has now been released -
    read what I actually wrote.


    You can dress up your lie by suggesting the document has not been turned into >one for dummies but it changes nothing. If you need a summary then you will >have to wait, I didn't need a summary - what does that tell you?
    The document was released on 26 January!!!!!!
    Now, have you managed to absorb that fact or are you now going to be offensive >again? Or are you going to say I am an internet troll because if you are I >strongly suggest you look up a definition in which I gurantee you will star >with distinction? Oh by the way, nothing in this thread has made me outraged, >you rarely have the ability to do that.
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Thursday, February 11, 2016 20:04:08
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Feb 2016 16:14:55 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:49:47 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    <snipped for brevity>

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? >>>>>>That
    would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it >>>>>would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your >>>>>decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see >>>>>what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to assume >>>>that
    you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory but >>>>actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that lies, >>>>again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a >>>>trivial
    point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is the >>>>will of the people!

    "All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow"- if all your
    lying is none, then the sun will still rise, Tony.

    You were the one that said The TTP is now public knowledge and the
    world has not stopped spinning": - you start with a falsehood (the TPP
    is not all public - the text is hundreds of pages long and not even >>>summaries have been published with even simple anaysis in a form most >>>people can read. So you start with a falsehood, then follow with
    saying that it will not do something that is entirely irrelevant, and >>>that we are unliekly to affect with any political proposals or
    decisions.

    If you cannot see that the two statements are entirely analgous, then
    you are not trying very hard. I objected to your statement, but you
    could not see my problem - a very similar statement fromme brings
    outrage from you. Biassed? Of course you are.

    Have a nice day, Tony, just watch out for those spin lines; you might >>>trip.


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >>>>>>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony
    See https://www.tpp.mfat.govt.nz/text released on 26 January.
    Rich I will keep the words nice and short - The TPP document is released in >>its
    entirety (sorry that was a long word!) as I said.
    And even now the government is refusing to answer questions about it -
    the wording is not at all clear in many places . . ..
    I can understand all that I have read (quite a lot of it actually), if you can't then I suggest you find someone to explain it to you!

    I have not lied.
    You have lied again.
    Why do you insist on trying to defend your lies and misinformation (look it >>up
    for a short word synonym) the document is released and that is what I said >>and
    you are denying it and that makes you a liar.
    I did not deny that the text of the agreement has now been released -
    read what I actually wrote.
    You wrote "you start with a falsehood (the TPPis not all public"
    It damn well is public and has been since last month. I had written that it was , you have now twice denied it so that is the falsehood here!
    How can you fail to understand that?


    You can dress up your lie by suggesting the document has not been turned into >>one for dummies but it changes nothing. If you need a summary then you will >>have to wait, I didn't need a summary - what does that tell you?
    The document was released on 26 January!!!!!!
    Now, have you managed to absorb that fact or are you now going to be >>offensive
    again? Or are you going to say I am an internet troll because if you are I >>strongly suggest you look up a definition in which I gurantee you will star >>with distinction? Oh by the way, nothing in this thread has made me outraged, >>you rarely have the ability to do that.
    Tony

    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to nor...@googlegroups.com on Thursday, February 11, 2016 18:21:48
    On Friday, 12 February 2016 11:14:57 UTC+13, nor...@googlegroups.com wrote:
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:49:47 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    <snipped for brevity>

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence?
    That
    would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it >>>would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your >>>decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see >>>what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to assume >>that
    you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory but >>actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that lies, >>again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a
    trivial
    point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is the >>will of the people!

    "All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow"- if all your
    lying is none, then the sun will still rise, Tony.

    You were the one that said The TTP is now public knowledge and the
    world has not stopped spinning": - you start with a falsehood (the TPP
    is not all public - the text is hundreds of pages long and not even >summaries have been published with even simple anaysis in a form most >people can read. So you start with a falsehood, then follow with
    saying that it will not do something that is entirely irrelevant, and
    that we are unliekly to affect with any political proposals or
    decisions.

    If you cannot see that the two statements are entirely analgous, then
    you are not trying very hard. I objected to your statement, but you
    could not see my problem - a very similar statement fromme brings
    outrage from you. Biassed? Of course you are.

    Have a nice day, Tony, just watch out for those spin lines; you might
    trip.


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >>>>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony
    See https://www.tpp.mfat.govt.nz/text released on 26 January.
    Rich I will keep the words nice and short - The TPP document is released in
    its
    entirety (sorry that was a long word!) as I said.
    I have not lied.
    You have lied again.
    Why do you insist on trying to defend your lies and misinformation (look it
    up
    for a short word synonym) the document is released and that is what I said
    and
    you are denying it and that makes you a liar.
    You can dress up your lie by suggesting the document has not been turned into one for dummies but it changes nothing. If you need a summary then you will have to wait, I didn't need a summary - what does that tell you?
    The document was released on 26 January!!!!!!
    Now, have you managed to absorb that fact or are you now going to be
    offensive
    again? Or are you going to say I am an internet troll because if you are I strongly suggest you look up a definition in which I gurantee you will star with distinction? Oh by the way, nothing in this thread has made me outraged, you rarely have the ability to do that.
    Tony

    Dickbot appears to be coming unhinged before our eyes. First he calls you a liar then denies he did, then he says the TPP text is not public then says it was released in full.

    I've often jokingly said that Dickbot was not a real person, just a poorly designed propaganda generating algorithm. You can see why!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to JohnO on Thursday, February 11, 2016 20:58:27
    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, 12 February 2016 11:14:57 UTC+13, nor...@googlegroups.com wrote: >> Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:49:47 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    <snipped for brevity>

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence?
    That
    would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your
    decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see
    what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to assume >> >>that
    you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory
    but
    actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that
    lies,
    again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a
    trivial
    point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is
    the
    will of the people!

    "All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow"- if all your
    lying is none, then the sun will still rise, Tony.

    You were the one that said The TTP is now public knowledge and the
    world has not stopped spinning": - you start with a falsehood (the TPP
    is not all public - the text is hundreds of pages long and not even
    summaries have been published with even simple anaysis in a form most
    people can read. So you start with a falsehood, then follow with
    saying that it will not do something that is entirely irrelevant, and
    that we are unliekly to affect with any political proposals or
    decisions.

    If you cannot see that the two statements are entirely analgous, then
    you are not trying very hard. I objected to your statement, but you
    could not see my problem - a very similar statement fromme brings
    outrage from you. Biassed? Of course you are.

    Have a nice day, Tony, just watch out for those spin lines; you might
    trip.


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty to >> >>>>understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony
    See https://www.tpp.mfat.govt.nz/text released on 26 January.
    Rich I will keep the words nice and short - The TPP document is released in >>its
    entirety (sorry that was a long word!) as I said.
    I have not lied.
    You have lied again.
    Why do you insist on trying to defend your lies and misinformation (look it >>up
    for a short word synonym) the document is released and that is what I said >>and
    you are denying it and that makes you a liar.
    You can dress up your lie by suggesting the document has not been turned >>into
    one for dummies but it changes nothing. If you need a summary then you will >> have to wait, I didn't need a summary - what does that tell you?
    The document was released on 26 January!!!!!!
    Now, have you managed to absorb that fact or are you now going to be >>offensive
    again? Or are you going to say I am an internet troll because if you are I >> strongly suggest you look up a definition in which I gurantee you will star >> with distinction? Oh by the way, nothing in this thread has made me >>outraged,
    you rarely have the ability to do that.
    Tony

    Dickbot appears to be coming unhinged before our eyes. First he calls you a >liar then denies he did, then he says the TPP text is not public then says it >was released in full.

    I've often jokingly said that Dickbot was not a real person, just a poorly >designed propaganda generating algorithm. You can see why!
    Yes I have seen a couple of posts where you said that and accepted them as tongue-in-cheek but I wonder sometimes.
    The thing that annoys me is that he complains about how others behave but in most cases what he complains about he does himself. He actually comes over as a classic troll on occasion.
    You would think that if he really cared about Labour he would concentrate on trying to fix a broken party, that is what I would do in his place. In fact I am doing just that right now (with others) but it is not a political party!

    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From JohnO@3:770/3 to nor...@googlegroups.com on Thursday, February 11, 2016 19:14:32
    On Friday, 12 February 2016 15:58:28 UTC+13, nor...@googlegroups.com wrote:
    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, 12 February 2016 11:14:57 UTC+13, nor...@googlegroups.com wrote: >> Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:49:47 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    <snipped for brevity>

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? >> >>>>That
    would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your
    decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see >> >>>what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to
    assume
    that
    you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory >> >>but
    actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that >> >>lies,
    again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a >> >>trivial
    point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is >> >>the
    will of the people!

    "All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow"- if all your
    lying is none, then the sun will still rise, Tony.

    You were the one that said The TTP is now public knowledge and the
    world has not stopped spinning": - you start with a falsehood (the TPP
    is not all public - the text is hundreds of pages long and not even
    summaries have been published with even simple anaysis in a form most
    people can read. So you start with a falsehood, then follow with
    saying that it will not do something that is entirely irrelevant, and
    that we are unliekly to affect with any political proposals or
    decisions.

    If you cannot see that the two statements are entirely analgous, then
    you are not trying very hard. I objected to your statement, but you
    could not see my problem - a very similar statement fromme brings
    outrage from you. Biassed? Of course you are.

    Have a nice day, Tony, just watch out for those spin lines; you might
    trip.


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty
    to
    understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony
    See https://www.tpp.mfat.govt.nz/text released on 26 January.
    Rich I will keep the words nice and short - The TPP document is released
    in
    its
    entirety (sorry that was a long word!) as I said.
    I have not lied.
    You have lied again.
    Why do you insist on trying to defend your lies and misinformation (look
    it
    up
    for a short word synonym) the document is released and that is what I said

    and
    you are denying it and that makes you a liar.
    You can dress up your lie by suggesting the document has not been turned >>into
    one for dummies but it changes nothing. If you need a summary then you
    will
    have to wait, I didn't need a summary - what does that tell you?
    The document was released on 26 January!!!!!!
    Now, have you managed to absorb that fact or are you now going to be >>offensive
    again? Or are you going to say I am an internet troll because if you are I

    strongly suggest you look up a definition in which I gurantee you will
    star
    with distinction? Oh by the way, nothing in this thread has made me >>outraged,
    you rarely have the ability to do that.
    Tony

    Dickbot appears to be coming unhinged before our eyes. First he calls you a >liar then denies he did, then he says the TPP text is not public then says
    it
    was released in full.

    I've often jokingly said that Dickbot was not a real person, just a poorly >designed propaganda generating algorithm. You can see why!
    Yes I have seen a couple of posts where you said that and accepted them as tongue-in-cheek but I wonder sometimes.
    The thing that annoys me is that he complains about how others behave but in most cases what he complains about he does himself. He actually comes over as
    a
    classic troll on occasion.
    You would think that if he really cared about Labour he would concentrate on trying to fix a broken party, that is what I would do in his place. In fact I

    am doing just that right now (with others) but it is not a political party!

    Tony

    The Labour party cannot repair itself. First of all, it is obsessed with John Key rather than looking at its own issues, and secondly, it is not interested in being a genuine 'broad church' party - it is beholden to union interests and
    this is now
    entrenched constitutionally.

    I see no way out - I think it is terminal. This only leaves the Green Party for
    the left wing votes, and Winston for the reactive grumpy vote with National collecting the centre ground by default. Not healthy for NZ to lack a viable opposition as it is
    allowing National to sleep walk to yet another victory.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From george152@3:770/3 to JohnO on Friday, February 12, 2016 16:47:37
    On 2/12/2016 4:14 PM, JohnO wrote:

    The Labour party cannot repair itself. First of all, it is obsessed with John
    Key rather than looking at its own issues, and secondly, it is not interested in being a genuine 'broad church' party - it is beholden to union interests and
    this is now
    entrenched constitutionally.

    I see no way out - I think it is terminal. This only leaves the Green Party
    for the left wing votes, and Winston for the reactive grumpy vote with National
    collecting the centre ground by default. Not healthy for NZ to lack a viable opposition as it is
    allowing National to sleep walk to yet another victory.


    The only thing to do with rich is invoke the killfile.
    There is nothing of merit coming from that direction.
    And as for Liebor, nearly history, the obits are being written, the
    unions will not fund their political wing and that's it..
    Bye bye angry little man and the queen of Wellington

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to gblack@hnpl.net on Saturday, February 13, 2016 00:29:23
    "george152" <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote in message news:o4idnX_pPI9GyCDLnZ2dnUU7-YnOydjZ@giganews.com...
    On 2/12/2016 4:14 PM, JohnO wrote:

    The Labour party cannot repair itself. First of all, it is obsessed with
    John Key rather than looking at its own issues, and secondly, it is not
    interested in being a genuine 'broad church' party - it is beholden to
    union interests and this is now entrenched constitutionally.

    I see no way out - I think it is terminal. This only leaves the Green
    Party for the left wing votes, and Winston for the reactive grumpy vote
    with National collecting the centre ground by default. Not healthy for NZ
    to lack a viable opposition as it is allowing National to sleep walk to
    yet another victory.


    The only thing to do with rich is invoke the killfile.
    There is nothing of merit coming from that direction.
    And as for Liebor, nearly history, the obits are being written, the unions will not fund their political wing and that's it..
    Bye bye angry little man and the queen of Wellington

    Unless someone with more gumption an brains than the current Labour
    leadership do a Jim Anderton and create yet another New Labour party. Regretably all that's liable to do is fragment the left even more than it is
    at present.

    Pooh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Pooh@3:770/3 to rich80105@hotmail.com on Saturday, February 13, 2016 00:25:35
    "Rich80105" <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:fsdqbb1c8ugd1l2e13h23svgfdequq6bnb@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 11 Feb 2016 16:14:55 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:49:47 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    <snipped for brevity>

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? >>>>>>That
    would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it >>>>>would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your >>>>>decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see >>>>>what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to >>>>assume
    that
    you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory >>>>but
    actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that >>>>lies,
    again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a >>>>trivial
    point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is >>>>the
    will of the people!

    "All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow"- if all your
    lying is none, then the sun will still rise, Tony.

    You were the one that said The TTP is now public knowledge and the
    world has not stopped spinning": - you start with a falsehood (the TPP
    is not all public - the text is hundreds of pages long and not even >>>summaries have been published with even simple anaysis in a form most >>>people can read. So you start with a falsehood, then follow with
    saying that it will not do something that is entirely irrelevant, and >>>that we are unliekly to affect with any political proposals or
    decisions.

    If you cannot see that the two statements are entirely analgous, then
    you are not trying very hard. I objected to your statement, but you
    could not see my problem - a very similar statement fromme brings
    outrage from you. Biassed? Of course you are.

    Have a nice day, Tony, just watch out for those spin lines; you might >>>trip.


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty >>>>>>to
    understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony
    See https://www.tpp.mfat.govt.nz/text released on 26 January.
    Rich I will keep the words nice and short - The TPP document is released
    in its
    entirety (sorry that was a long word!) as I said.
    And even now the government is refusing to answer questions about it -
    the wording is not at all clear in many places . . ..


    Only for a myopic, moaning, marxist muppet like you Rich.

    I have not lied.
    You have lied again.
    Why do you insist on trying to defend your lies and misinformation (look
    it up
    for a short word synonym) the document is released and that is what I said >>and
    you are denying it and that makes you a liar.
    I did not deny that the text of the agreement has now been released -
    read what I actually wrote.

    We did Rich which is why Tony quite rightly called your lie.

    You can dress up your lie by suggesting the document has not been turned >>into
    one for dummies but it changes nothing. If you need a summary then you
    will
    have to wait, I didn't need a summary - what does that tell you?
    The document was released on 26 January!!!!!!
    Now, have you managed to absorb that fact or are you now going to be >>offensive
    again? Or are you going to say I am an internet troll because if you are I >>strongly suggest you look up a definition in which I gurantee you will
    star
    with distinction? Oh by the way, nothing in this thread has made me >>outraged,
    you rarely have the ability to do that.
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Tony @3:770/3 to nor...@googlegroups.com on Sunday, February 14, 2016 16:23:57
    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, 12 February 2016 15:58:28 UTC+13, nor...@googlegroups.com wrote:
    JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, 12 February 2016 11:14:57 UTC+13, nor...@googlegroups.com wrote:
    Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:49:47 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
    dot nz> wrote:

    <snipped for brevity>

    All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow, Tony.
    No lies from me here, if there are could you please provide evidence? >> >> >>>>That
    would of course be a first!

    If you have not lied (and note I varefully did notclaim you had) it
    would still not stop the sun rising - all I was doing was copy your
    decpetive wording, albeit in a simpler form in the hope you would see >> >> >>>what you were doing.

    Happy now?
    I didn't lie, but you said I did (look 8 lines up). I would like to
    assume
    that
    you have a problem concentrating together with an extremely poor memory >> >> >>but
    actually deep down I know that you do it deliberately. It is you that >> >> >>lies,
    again and again - you will say anything in your desperation to make a >> >> >>trivial
    point.
    The TTP is as done as it is possible to be done at this point and it is >> >> >>the
    will of the people!

    "All your lying will not stop the sun rising tomorrow"- if all your
    lying is none, then the sun will still rise, Tony.

    You were the one that said The TTP is now public knowledge and the
    world has not stopped spinning": - you start with a falsehood (the TPP >> >> >is not all public - the text is hundreds of pages long and not even
    summaries have been published with even simple anaysis in a form most
    people can read. So you start with a falsehood, then follow with
    saying that it will not do something that is entirely irrelevant, and
    that we are unliekly to affect with any political proposals or
    decisions.

    If you cannot see that the two statements are entirely analgous, then
    you are not trying very hard. I objected to your statement, but you
    could not see my problem - a very similar statement fromme brings
    outrage from you. Biassed? Of course you are.

    Have a nice day, Tony, just watch out for those spin lines; you might
    trip.


    The sun will rise tomorrow despite your nasty innuendos and inabilty >> >> >>>>to
    understand or care about what is best for this country!
    Tony

    Tony
    See https://www.tpp.mfat.govt.nz/text released on 26 January.
    Rich I will keep the words nice and short - The TPP document is released >> >>in
    its
    entirety (sorry that was a long word!) as I said.
    I have not lied.
    You have lied again.
    Why do you insist on trying to defend your lies and misinformation (look >> >>it
    up
    for a short word synonym) the document is released and that is what I
    said
    and
    you are denying it and that makes you a liar.
    You can dress up your lie by suggesting the document has not been turned >> >>into
    one for dummies but it changes nothing. If you need a summary then you
    will
    have to wait, I didn't need a summary - what does that tell you?
    The document was released on 26 January!!!!!!
    Now, have you managed to absorb that fact or are you now going to be
    offensive
    again? Or are you going to say I am an internet troll because if you are >> >>I
    strongly suggest you look up a definition in which I gurantee you will
    star
    with distinction? Oh by the way, nothing in this thread has made me
    outraged,
    you rarely have the ability to do that.
    Tony

    Dickbot appears to be coming unhinged before our eyes. First he calls you a >> >liar then denies he did, then he says the TPP text is not public then says >> >it
    was released in full.

    I've often jokingly said that Dickbot was not a real person, just a poorly >> >designed propaganda generating algorithm. You can see why!
    Yes I have seen a couple of posts where you said that and accepted them as >> tongue-in-cheek but I wonder sometimes.
    The thing that annoys me is that he complains about how others behave but in >> most cases what he complains about he does himself. He actually comes over >>as a
    classic troll on occasion.
    You would think that if he really cared about Labour he would concentrate on >> trying to fix a broken party, that is what I would do in his place. In fact >>I
    am doing just that right now (with others) but it is not a political party! >>
    Tony

    The Labour party cannot repair itself. First of all, it is obsessed with John >Key rather than looking at its own issues, and secondly, it is not interested >in being a genuine 'broad church' party - it is beholden to union interests and
    this is now entrenched constitutionally.

    I see no way out - I think it is terminal. This only leaves the Green Party >for the left wing votes, and Winston for the reactive grumpy vote with National
    collecting the centre ground by default. Not healthy for NZ to lack a viable >opposition as it is allowing National to sleep walk to yet another victory. Regretably I believe it is terminal also. We need a statesmanlike person to stand up and say "follow me". I don't care what they call it provided it is an honest party!
    Tony

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)