On Tue, 8 Mar 2016 15:21:10 +1300, Rob <rob@forgetit.com> wrote:

The Scottish National Party are interesting - they appear to be able
to manage expectations very well; and to dominate in their area; it
may be a sign of more to come, although I suspect there are too many
English living in Wales to achieve the same "nationalism" there.

You are not talking about the UK I recently left. The politics there are
not reported by newspapers very honestly. Corbyn is thought to be a
somewhat dangerous man by many and the distrust of the PM is the only
thing that keeps Labour going. Labour have no policies there and so far
as I can see here either. The UK Conservatives have policies all right
but they are not very popular but that does not mean they are wrong and
so far as I can see here the National party have implemented most of the >policies they promised but obviously they can't do them all, no party
can, can they?

I suspect Rich worked for British Leyland in the 1970s
He now looks back as the good old days.
Thank god Thatcher came along.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On Tue, 8 Mar 2016 15:21:10 +1300, Rob <rob@forgetit.com> wrote:

On 7/03/2016 1:31 PM, Rich80105 wrote:

On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 13:06:45 +1300, Rob <rob@forgetit.com> wrote:

On 7/03/2016 12:50 PM, Rich80105 wrote:

On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 09:59:00 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 7/03/2016 9:43 a.m., JohnO wrote:

"Yanis Varoufakis is advising the Labour party, Jeremy Corbyn reveals" >>>>>>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12176912/Yanis-Varoufakis-is-advising-the-Labour-party-Jeremy-Corbyn-reveals.html?sf21678095=1

The Tories can relax and bump up plans for golf and vacations - UK Labour are making sure there will be no change in government there for a long time.

Don't count on it. They're poms after all. Corbyn's own thoughts on the >>>>> economy provide huge amusement. Great reading for a wet day. Mind you, >>>>> with a bit of assistance from old Yanis - what's his face it's bound to >>>>> be even funnier.

From the article:
". . .At the time he accused EU leaders of "terrorism" towards Greece
for attempting to force strict financial measures on the struggling
country. He also claimed that "austerity is like trying to extract
milk from a sick cow by whipping it". "

All the promoters of austerity achieved was a lengthier recovery from
the GFC, and a looming further depressed period. New Zealand was
fortunate to have had a Labour Government and as a result were in a
very strong financial position, but National has not adopted the
extremes of austrerity, despite plenty of crony capitalism payments
making it harder to get benefits, and tax changes (including breaking
a promise to not raise GST) that favoured the wealthy at the expense
of low and middle income earners. They have also spent money - not
much in Christchurch as that was mainly insurance proceeds but it did
keep trades busy and Fletcher shareholders have done very nicely, but
also a bunch of low return roads - and a promise to build bridges in
Northland (don't hold your breath!). It has been enough that interest
costs are now depressing our economy or at least constraining
expenditure; not helped by blindness to an over-concentration on dairy >>>> which is now causing economic as well as financial and pollution
problems.

Good pn Labour in the UK for listening to a range of views - would
that National here did as well . . .

Hi Rich
I think you may be a little out of date with what is happening in the
UK. I have worked there for a while and many people are laughing at the
Labour party, they don't have many policies and their only hope is that
the Conservatives are also being laughed at. The choice will be of the
lesser of two evils. The NZ government is looked at as a good example.

Thanks Rob. I was in the UK for a few years some time ago, and we
decided it was a lovely place to live for the wealthy and high
earners, but dreadful for low earners. I suspect New Zealand and the
UK have become slightly cloer over the last decade, but both suffer
from low domestic consumer demand due to unaffordability. Corbyn has
been an amazing change for one of the major parties, and its difficult
to tell at this distance whether he will survive, but the influence of
his ideas does seem to have affected other parties, as Sanders is
doing in the USA. Not having any policies (and I suspect that is
untrue by the way) did not hurt the National Party here - supporters
were privately muttering about being Labour-lite) but it actually
helped National in 2008, and is I suspect a fairly standard
Crosby-Textor tactic - only tell the public what they want to hear.
HAving teh choice of two evils is how an increasing percentage of
citizens of New Zealand think of politics; reporting rather than
journalism and a deliberate starvation of information from government
has assisted that.

The Scottish National Party are interesting - they appear to be able
to manage expectations very well; and to dominate in their area; it
may be a sign of more to come, although I suspect there are too many
English living in Wales to achieve the same "nationalism" there.

You are not talking about the UK I recently left. The politics there are
not reported by newspapers very honestly.

That appears to be a worldwide problem - newspapers are losing money
on print, and not able to compete with free internet "news". The book
Dirty Tricks is partly about the political response by National to the
new realityh - it is now possible to get "manufactured "news" out
through deniable blogs - in New Zealand Kiwiblog was deliberately set
up to exploit the ability to provide a far right slant on ordinary
events, with a mix of personal travelogue included, while Whaleoil was
an extreme gossip column through which slurs and innuendo could be
channeled, to be picked up by lazy journalists who need cheap conflict
stories. Newspapers in the UK when I was there in the 2000's was
dominated by partisan proprietors, the BBC ha become captive to the establishment, and alternatives are less analysed than had been the
case 20 years before.

Corbyn, like Sanders in the USA, are espousing different policies - in
much the same way that Blair did years before - like all modern
political campaigns they were short on specifics, but spoke of
priorities and big picture issues. What we do know is that
conventional policies of austerity have not worked very well, and
populations know that listen for example to the last 30 seconds of: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201792308/business-commentator-rod-oram

As Rod Oram says, there is not much discussion of these issues . . .

Corbyn is thought to be a
somewhat dangerous man by many and the distrust of the PM is the only
thing that keeps Labour going. Labour have no policies there and so far
as I can see here either.

The 2008 campaign here was characterised by the National Opposition
under Key trying to appear as little different from the then
Labour-led government as possible without committing to anything at
all - and ever since the government has misrepresented the past,
blamed he previous governmetn for anything that goes wrong, and
adopted scare tactics rather than policies suitable for our time -
their policies have been all about looking after those most likely to
vote for them, leading to increaased inequality, increased poverty,
reductions in government services, privatisation, higher debt, more
expensive motor vehicles being imported and a property boom fueled by
a biassed taxation system - all applaude by a biassed press and
banking commentators owned by foreigners.

The UK Conservatives have policies all right
but they are not very popular but that does not mean they are wrong and
so far as I can see here the National party have implemented most of the >policies they promised but obviously they can't do them all, no party
can, can they?

National here have given us a decade of deficits with the likelihood
of more. The only economic goal they ever set for themselves was a
surplus - they will have achieved a technical surplus once as the
result of a lot of accounting trickery, but we are looking at another
decade of loss of sovereignity to overseas borrows and now overseas
owners under National.

What promises that National made have they been unable to fill? Lack
of promises has kept that to a very short list . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On 9/03/2016 7:50 AM, Rich80105 wrote:

On Tue, 8 Mar 2016 15:21:10 +1300, Rob <rob@forgetit.com> wrote:

On 7/03/2016 1:31 PM, Rich80105 wrote:

On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 13:06:45 +1300, Rob <rob@forgetit.com> wrote:

On 7/03/2016 12:50 PM, Rich80105 wrote:

On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 09:59:00 +1300, Fred <dryrot@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 7/03/2016 9:43 a.m., JohnO wrote:

"Yanis Varoufakis is advising the Labour party, Jeremy Corbyn reveals" >>>>>>>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12176912/Yanis-Varoufakis-is-advising-the-Labour-party-Jeremy-Corbyn-reveals.html?sf21678095=1

The Tories can relax and bump up plans for golf and vacations - UK Labour are making sure there will be no change in government there for a long time.

Don't count on it. They're poms after all. Corbyn's own thoughts on the >>>>>> economy provide huge amusement. Great reading for a wet day. Mind you, >>>>>> with a bit of assistance from old Yanis - what's his face it's bound to >>>>>> be even funnier.

From the article:
". . .At the time he accused EU leaders of "terrorism" towards Greece >>>>> for attempting to force strict financial measures on the struggling
country. He also claimed that "austerity is like trying to extract
milk from a sick cow by whipping it". "

All the promoters of austerity achieved was a lengthier recovery from >>>>> the GFC, and a looming further depressed period. New Zealand was
fortunate to have had a Labour Government and as a result were in a
very strong financial position, but National has not adopted the
extremes of austrerity, despite plenty of crony capitalism payments
making it harder to get benefits, and tax changes (including breaking >>>>> a promise to not raise GST) that favoured the wealthy at the expense >>>>> of low and middle income earners. They have also spent money - not
much in Christchurch as that was mainly insurance proceeds but it did >>>>> keep trades busy and Fletcher shareholders have done very nicely, but >>>>> also a bunch of low return roads - and a promise to build bridges in >>>>> Northland (don't hold your breath!). It has been enough that interest >>>>> costs are now depressing our economy or at least constraining
expenditure; not helped by blindness to an over-concentration on dairy >>>>> which is now causing economic as well as financial and pollution
problems.

Good pn Labour in the UK for listening to a range of views - would
that National here did as well . . .

Hi Rich
I think you may be a little out of date with what is happening in the
UK. I have worked there for a while and many people are laughing at the >>>> Labour party, they don't have many policies and their only hope is that >>>> the Conservatives are also being laughed at. The choice will be of the >>>> lesser of two evils. The NZ government is looked at as a good example.

Thanks Rob. I was in the UK for a few years some time ago, and we
decided it was a lovely place to live for the wealthy and high
earners, but dreadful for low earners. I suspect New Zealand and the
UK have become slightly cloer over the last decade, but both suffer
from low domestic consumer demand due to unaffordability. Corbyn has
been an amazing change for one of the major parties, and its difficult
to tell at this distance whether he will survive, but the influence of
his ideas does seem to have affected other parties, as Sanders is
doing in the USA. Not having any policies (and I suspect that is
untrue by the way) did not hurt the National Party here - supporters
were privately muttering about being Labour-lite) but it actually
helped National in 2008, and is I suspect a fairly standard
Crosby-Textor tactic - only tell the public what they want to hear.
HAving teh choice of two evils is how an increasing percentage of
citizens of New Zealand think of politics; reporting rather than
journalism and a deliberate starvation of information from government
has assisted that.

The Scottish National Party are interesting - they appear to be able
to manage expectations very well; and to dominate in their area; it
may be a sign of more to come, although I suspect there are too many
English living in Wales to achieve the same "nationalism" there.

You are not talking about the UK I recently left. The politics there are
not reported by newspapers very honestly.

That appears to be a worldwide problem - newspapers are losing money
on print, and not able to compete with free internet "news". The book
Dirty Tricks is partly about the political response by National to the
new realityh - it is now possible to get "manufactured "news" out
through deniable blogs - in New Zealand Kiwiblog was deliberately set
up to exploit the ability to provide a far right slant on ordinary
events, with a mix of personal travelogue included, while Whaleoil was
an extreme gossip column through which slurs and innuendo could be
channeled, to be picked up by lazy journalists who need cheap conflict stories.

It seems that there are some Labour blogs as well but to be honest I
don't usually read political blogs because they all seem to be close to
lies.

Newspapers in the UK when I was there in the 2000's was
dominated by partisan proprietors, the BBC ha become captive to the establishment, and alternatives are less analysed than had been the
case 20 years before.

Corbyn, like Sanders in the USA, are espousing different policies - in
much the same way that Blair did years before - like all modern
political campaigns they were short on specifics, but spoke of
priorities and big picture issues. What we do know is that
conventional policies of austerity have not worked very well, and
populations know that listen for example to the last 30 seconds of: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201792308/business-commentator-rod-oram

As Rod Oram says, there is not much discussion of these issues . . .

Corbyn is thought to be a
somewhat dangerous man by many and the distrust of the PM is the only
thing that keeps Labour going. Labour have no policies there and so far
as I can see here either.

The 2008 campaign here was characterised by the National Opposition
under Key trying to appear as little different from the then
Labour-led government as possible without committing to anything at
all - and ever since the government has misrepresented the past,
blamed he previous governmetn for anything that goes wrong, and
adopted scare tactics rather than policies suitable for our time -
their policies have been all about looking after those most likely to
vote for them, leading to increaased inequality, increased poverty, reductions in government services, privatisation, higher debt, more
expensive motor vehicles being imported and a property boom fueled by
a biassed taxation system - all applaude by a biassed press and
banking commentators owned by foreigners.

If that is true then why is the government so popular? And why did it
easily win the second and third elections? I do not believe that the
public is that easily tricked, perhaps you do.

The UK Conservatives have policies all right
but they are not very popular but that does not mean they are wrong and
so far as I can see here the National party have implemented most of the
policies they promised but obviously they can't do them all, no party
can, can they?

National here have given us a decade of deficits with the likelihood
of more. The only economic goal they ever set for themselves was a
surplus - they will have achieved a technical surplus once as the
result of a lot of accounting trickery, but we are looking at another
decade of loss of sovereignity to overseas borrows and now overseas
owners under National.

What promises that National made have they been unable to fill? Lack
of promises has kept that to a very short list . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

"Liberty" <liberty48@live.com> wrote in message news:kajpdbp5cl5b3df99c8c8i2rpv9qbc9uq4@4ax.com...

On Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:31:30 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Hi Rich
I think you may be a little out of date with what is happening in the
UK. I have worked there for a while and many people are laughing at the >>>Labour party, they don't have many policies and their only hope is that >>>the Conservatives are also being laughed at. The choice will be of the >>>lesser of two evils. The NZ government is looked at as a good example.

Thanks Rob. I was in the UK for a few years some time ago, and we
decided it was a lovely place to live for the wealthy and high
earners, but dreadful for low earners. I suspect New Zealand and the
UK have become slightly cloer over the last decade, but both suffer
from low domestic consumer demand due to unaffordability. Corbyn has
been an amazing change for one of the major parties, and its difficult
to tell at this distance whether he will survive, but the influence of
his ideas does seem to have affected other parties, as Sanders is
doing in the USA. Not having any policies (and I suspect that is
untrue by the way) did not hurt the National Party here - supporters
were privately muttering about being Labour-lite) but it actually
helped National in 2008, and is I suspect a fairly standard
Crosby-Textor tactic - only tell the public what they want to hear.
HAving teh choice of two evils is how an increasing percentage of
citizens of New Zealand think of politics; reporting rather than
journalism and a deliberate starvation of information from government
has assisted that.

The Scottish National Party are interesting - they appear to be able
to manage expectations very well; and to dominate in their area; it
may be a sign of more to come, although I suspect there are too many >>English living in Wales to achieve the same "nationalism" there.

Your point is ?

Rich is just highlighting his stupidity and lack of comprehension of the
real world as usual Lib. The convenient idiot can't help himself. So typical
of the loopy left with no policys, no direction, no support and no sense :)

Pooh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

"Rich80105" <rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:9vlpdblfis6tvuf57ofohidvi9emev93ju@4ax.com...

On Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:37:54 +1300, Liberty <liberty48@live.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:31:30 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Hi Rich
I think you may be a little out of date with what is happening in the >>>>UK. I have worked there for a while and many people are laughing at the >>>>Labour party, they don't have many policies and their only hope is that >>>>the Conservatives are also being laughed at. The choice will be of the >>>>lesser of two evils. The NZ government is looked at as a good example.

Thanks Rob. I was in the UK for a few years some time ago, and we
decided it was a lovely place to live for the wealthy and high
earners, but dreadful for low earners. I suspect New Zealand and the
UK have become slightly cloer over the last decade, but both suffer
from low domestic consumer demand due to unaffordability. Corbyn has
been an amazing change for one of the major parties, and its difficult
to tell at this distance whether he will survive, but the influence of >>>his ideas does seem to have affected other parties, as Sanders is
doing in the USA. Not having any policies (and I suspect that is
untrue by the way) did not hurt the National Party here - supporters
were privately muttering about being Labour-lite) but it actually
helped National in 2008, and is I suspect a fairly standard
Crosby-Textor tactic - only tell the public what they want to hear. >>>HAving teh choice of two evils is how an increasing percentage of >>>citizens of New Zealand think of politics; reporting rather than >>>journalism and a deliberate starvation of information from government
has assisted that.

The Scottish National Party are interesting - they appear to be able
to manage expectations very well; and to dominate in their area; it
may be a sign of more to come, although I suspect there are too many >>>English living in Wales to achieve the same "nationalism" there.

Your point is ?

That an country and its economy are complex, and that comparisons with
New Zealand are nt always simple. Both the UK and New Zealand are
affected by worldwide trends in thinking, but comparisons are not
always direct.

So why don't you display this rare example of some common sense in your
usual pointless rants aginst National Rich.

it is good to hear from a poster with more recent
experience in the UK than I have.

Funny how he didn't support your bullshit Rich. That is if your claim to
have visited is anything but another of your fairy tales.

Pooh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

"Tony" <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> wrote in message news:part1of1.1.uE4nRrYwyXF88w@ue.ph...

JohnO <johno1234@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 15:11:02 UTC+13, morriss...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 9:43:54 AM UTC+13, JohnO wrote:

"Yanis Varoufakis is advising the Labour party, Jeremy Corbyn reveals" >>> >

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12176912/Yanis-Varoufakis-is-advising-the-Labour-party-Jeremy-Corbyn-reveals.html?sf21678095=1

The Tories can relax and bump up plans for golf and vacations - UK
Labour
are making sure there will be no change in government there for a long
time.

Could you briefly and coherently state why you are professing some kind
of
wonderment that Corbyn has appointed one of the most respected economists >>>in
the world to his team?

ROTFLMAO. Priceless!

I don't think you can.

I certainly cannot as your assertion is plainly nonsensical. The man is a >>self
described Marxist, which immediately makes "one of the most respected >>economists in the world" a good belly laugh.

What I cannot understand is why people who are that far left of
intelligent
pesist in espousing a dogma that has failed everywhere it has been tried
and in
the process killed and enslaved millions of people. Their heads must be
sore
after all that beating against the wall. No Rich, that doesn't mean I am a National supporter!
Tony

It may well explain the left perfectly Tony. All that beating of heads
against the wall has destroyed what little functional brain matter they had.

Pooh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 07:50:55 +1300, Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

All the promoters of austerity achieved was a lengthier recovery from >>>>> the GFC, and a looming further depressed period. New Zealand was
fortunate to have had a Labour Government and as a result were in a
very strong financial position, but National has not adopted the
extremes of austrerity, despite plenty of crony capitalism payments

Such as?

making it harder to get benefits,

So it should be hard

and tax changes (including breaking

a promise to not raise GST) that favoured the wealthy at the expense >>>>> of low and middle income earners.

Its the wealthy that spend

They have also spent money - not

much in Christchurch

What a load of crap. The state has spent Billions on Christchuch

as that was mainly insurance proceeds but it did

keep trades busy and Fletcher shareholders have done very nicely

What is the problem with that?

also a bunch of low return roads - and a promise to build bridges in >>>>> Northland (don't hold your breath!)

Labour objected to changing the RMA
Then you bitch because a Bridge takes longer than12 months to build . what a dickhead

. It has been enough that interest

costs are now depressing our economy or at least constraining
expenditure; not helped by blindness to an over-concentration on dairy There is a lot more to the economy than dairy

which is now causing economic as well as financial and pollution
problems.

Good pn Labour in the UK for listening to a range of views

LOL labour lost big time in england
- would

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)