From: slider@anashram.com

"Nato's relationship with Ukraine is going to be decided by the 30 Nato
allies and Ukraine - no one else," Mr Stoltenberg said, at a joint news conference with Germany's Chancellor Olaf Scholz.

"We cannot accept that Russia is trying to reestablish a system where big powers like Russia have spheres of influence, where they can control or
decide what other members can do."

Earlier, Russia's Foreign Ministry had said that Nato should formally
scrap a 2008 declaration opening the door to Georgia and Ukraine, two
former Soviet republics.

"In the fundamental interests of European security, it is necessary to officially disavow the decision of the 2008 Nato Bucharest summit that
'Ukraine and Georgia will become Nato members'," it said.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/nato-chief-rejects-russia-demand-to-deny-ukraine-entry

Russian troops now occupy two breakaway regions of Georgia, and Moscow has annexed Ukraine's Crimea region while allegedly supporting separatist
rebels in the neighbouring Donbas.

In the past few weeks, Russia has moved around 100,000 troops to Ukraine's border, sounding alarm bells in Washington and at Nato's Brussels
headquarters.

This week, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Unites States leader Joe
Biden held two hours of talks, with the Kremlin chief demanding the West guarantee that Ukraine would not become a Nato launchpad.

'High price'

The Western allies are concerned about the Russian build-up, but have redeclared support for Ukraine's sovereignty and warned Russia of deep "strategic and economic" consequences if it invades.

Mr Stoltenberg was clear, insisting that while Western leaders are open to talks, they will "not compromise on the rights of every nation in Europe
to decide their own path.

"This is enshrined in many documents and agreements that also Russia has signed," he said, citing European security agreements going back to the
Cold War.

"It has been clearly stated that any sovereign independent nation of
course has the right to choose his own path, including what kind of
security arrangements he wants to be part of."

Mr Scholz, who took power on Wednesday (Dec 8) and was on his first trip
as chancellor to Nato, also warned Russia.

"Nato Allies agree that any further aggression against Ukraine will come
at a high price and have serious political and economic consequences for Russia," he said.

The German leader is under pressure to commit to halting the opening of
the Nord Stream 2 pipeline between Russia and Germany if Moscow attacks Ukraine.

He has not promised this, but he said: "We call on Russia to return to diplomacy and to de-escalate and to respect Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity."

Ukraine and Georgia are not on the verge of joining Nato, which has a
mutual defence pact that would see other members mobilise to defend a
partner if attacked.

But the United States and some allies help train Ukrainian forces, and Washington committed more than US$2.5 billion (S$3.4 billion) to bolster a military that crumbled in the face of the Russian assault back in 2014.

### - russia wont 'invade' ukraine unless it absolutely has to + from the
look of things they're obviously prepared to... the prompt for that being
if say the rebels somehow start losing in the south against what turns out
to be a better supplied army (something ukraine doesn't have unless
someone has since supplied them with one, so we'll see...)

meanwhile, the last we heard anything from there was of ukraine shelling
rebel positions and then it's gone totally quiet? (dunno if the shelling's stopped, there's just no more news coming out)

we (the west) backed-down last time, the russians packed-up and everybody
went home, so is it gonna be any different this time??

guess we'll soon find out innit...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwieax61Fh0

lift yourself up from the toxic sludge of horseshit
don't believe everything you see on the 'net

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

### - (crackin' up laffing) that's just wallyworld's national anthem ya
dope haha...

the song they ALL joyfully sing on their way DOWN the mines?? (really laffing)

(yeah yeah, i know: fuck off) LOL ! :D

bingo.
so are you the president of the juicy mullet fan club or something?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwieax61Fh0

### - (crackin' up laffing) that's just wallyworld's national anthem ya
dope haha...

the song they ALL joyfully sing on their way DOWN the mines?? (really
laffing)

(yeah yeah, i know: fuck off) LOL ! :D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

- (crackin' up laffing) that's just wallyworld's national anthem ya
dope haha...

the song they ALL joyfully sing on their way DOWN the mines?? (really
laffing)

(yeah yeah, i know: fuck off) LOL ! :D

bingo.
so are you the president of the juicy mullet fan club or something?

### - far from it, smile, couldn't give a shit either way about the things
gay people in showbusiness happen to get into trouble about, anymore than
i gives a flyin' fuck about what plumbers do when they's on the fiddle?
like OJ that time; it's ALL wallyworld bs as far as am personally
concerned... lol ya might as well ask me what fuckin' football team i
support??

i don't, and never get 'hot-headed' about, well, anything really haha :)

my 'surprise' (what raised my eyebrows in amusement haha) being YOU
suddenly jumping up & down like a total loon coz whitey finally scored a
couple of goals? (really laffing) they's been a bit short of scoring any
goals recently what with blm on their neck (heh) amidst accusations of corruption in very high, white places, etc, etc, you were strangely quiet
about all that huh, even annoyed onetime that blacks had anything to say
or to even complain about? but when rottenhouse gots let-off for killing 2 white people during a black riot (heh @ the irony of that!) and now this
re some cops actually being innocent (like when were cops ever fucking innocent?? hah!) then you're up there like a shot rattling the bars of
your cage shouting: yay! yay! yay! we scored a goaaaaal!!!! ahaha :)))

and just seems a bit nutty to get so emotionally 'involved' is all am
saying?

(you were defo barkin' thar boy haha) ;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

### - far from it, smile, couldn't give a shit either way about the things gay people in showbusiness happen to get into trouble about, anymore than
i gives a flyin' fuck about what plumbers do when they's on the fiddle?

"on the fiddle"? what the hell is that? sittin' on the can perhaps? lol

like OJ that time; it's ALL wallyworld bs as far as am personally concerned... lol ya might as well ask me what fuckin' football team i support??

well you certainly have a bit to say, lord knows why? bored at home still?

i don't, and never get 'hot-headed' about, well, anything really haha :)

no you just take it out on the keyboard, pounding those keys, ha ha.

my 'surprise' (what raised my eyebrows in amusement haha) being YOU
suddenly jumping up & down like a total loon coz whitey finally scored a couple of goals? (really laffing) they's been a bit short of scoring any

this issue is not about keeping score or any silly shit like that.

goals recently what with blm on their neck (heh) amidst accusations of corruption in very high, white places, etc, etc, you were strangely quiet about all that huh, even annoyed onetime that blacks had anything to say

i don't represent anyone, black, white, queer, straight, rich, poor, smart, stupid.

or to even complain about? but when rottenhouse gots let-off for killing 2

oh someone still has left over feelings about something he could care less about eh?
ha ha. you're just pissed (like most demos) that the little shit got off.

white people during a black riot (heh @ the irony of that!) and now this
re some cops actually being innocent (like when were cops ever fucking innocent?? hah!) then you're up there like a shot rattling the bars of
your cage shouting: yay! yay! yay! we scored a goaaaaal!!!! ahaha :)))

jesus what an imagination you got there dreamer boy. you actually waste
time keeping some score? so do you just wanna be on the side that is winning?
well do ya punk? sure you do, you want to think of yourself as a 'weiner',

and just seems a bit nutty to get so emotionally 'involved' is all am
saying?

is this where we insert some pot, kettle, black phrases? ha ha, sure pally.

(you were defo barkin' thar boy haha) ;)

what would you do with your spare time if i didn't?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)