Hey Paul,

On my copy of Mystic that I am running on my "lab" computer watching
the behaviour of several BBS softwares I have noticed something quite disturbing that Marc Lewis (Waldo's place) on fido has also confirmed
to me.

When running MUTIL to pack the message bases after purge it renumbers everything from 1 going on.

Most NNTP readers keep their own last read pointers not expecitng the
servers to renumber the records. When you run MUTLI to pack/purge it resequences everthing from 1 on and throws the last read count off.

I foudn this as a user of my system and I tested the NNTP access
after I was working my spam filters and purged about 100 messages out
of a group that stored 10,000 messages. WHen the new messages came in,
the NNTP read. It took about 100 new messages before the news readers
started downloading messages again and it ignored the 100 previous
messages received.

This behaviour is also happening with HPT's Purge utiltiy as well as
when you Pack the message base to remove dead space it renumbers the
whole shabang.

Other message base utilities, like fastecho's feutils, will remove the
dead space without renumbering or give you the option to renumber or
not. This could be an option base by base to renumber or not. But by
allowing NNTP access we should not force the base to renumber as it
breaks some users NNTP clients. Mainly the more mainstream ones like Thunderbird, Postbox or Agent. None of them use the BBS's last read
counters but the last number message that was downloaded.

Mark Lewis did confirm that this is standard in the world of NNTP.

Allen


--- LiveWire
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Telnet://livewirebbs.com (21:1/148)

On 09/21/16, Hawke said the following...

Hey Paul,

On my copy of Mystic that I am running on my "lab" computer watching
the behaviour of several BBS softwares I have noticed something quite disturbing that Marc Lewis (Waldo's place) on fido has also confirmed
to me.

When running MUTIL to pack the message bases after purge it renumbers everything from 1 going on.

Yes, this is how MUTIL Message pack works. As a BBS sysop, I don't like
having gaps in message numbering.

Most NNTP readers keep their own last read pointers not expecitng the servers to renumber the records. When you run MUTLI to pack/purge it resequences everthing from 1 on and throws the last read count off.

Maybe Message Pack is not the right option for you if you want to use nntp.

I foudn this as a user of my system and I tested the NNTP access
after I was working my spam filters and purged about 100 messages out
of a group that stored 10,000 messages. WHen the new messages came in,
the NNTP read. It took about 100 new messages before the news readers started downloading messages again and it ignored the 100 previous messages received.

This behaviour is also happening with HPT's Purge utiltiy as well as
when you Pack the message base to remove dead space it renumbers the
whole shabang.

So basically, it's behaving exactly as expected.

Other message base utilities, like fastecho's feutils, will remove the dead space without renumbering or give you the option to renumber or
not. This could be an option base by base to renumber or not. But by allowing NNTP access we should not force the base to renumber as it
breaks some users NNTP clients. Mainly the more mainstream ones like Thunderbird, Postbox or Agent. None of them use the BBS's last read counters but the last number message that was downloaded.

Mark Lewis did confirm that this is standard in the world of NNTP.

You have to remember that Mystic and the JAM message base are first and foremost, BBSes and for BBSes. The addition of NNTP was a hack at best with a means to add functionality and access to the BBS-Style message bases. This does not mean that the Mystic or JAM message bases are lacking in any way.
It seems to me, if NNTP is your primary focus, then it might be best to run a native NNTP server. A person should not use a hammer as a screwdriver, and expect the same results as a screwdriver.

"No matter where you go, there you are!" - Buckaroo Bonzai

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
* Origin: Cyberia BBS | Cyberia.Darktech.Org | Kingwood, TX (21:1/120)

On 10/11/16, Gryphon pondered and said...

On 09/21/16, Hawke said the following...

Hey Paul,

On my copy of Mystic that I am running on my "lab" computer watching the behaviour of several BBS softwares I have noticed something quite disturbing that Marc Lewis (Waldo's place) on fido has also confirmed to me.

Thunderbird, Postbox or Agent. None of them use the BBS's last read counters but the last number message that was downloaded.

Mark Lewis did confirm that this is standard in the world of NNTP.

You have to remember that Mystic and the JAM message base are first and foremost, BBSes and for BBSes. The addition of NNTP was a hack at best with a means to add functionality and access to the BBS-Style message bases. This does not mean that the Mystic or JAM message bases are lacking in any way. It seems to me, if NNTP is your primary focus, then
it might be best to run a native NNTP server. A person should not use a hammer as a screwdriver, and expect the same results as a screwdriver.

Thanks Hawke and Gryphon for your comments. Interesting to read all of the above. I tend to agree with Gryphon that the NNTP side of Mystic may not be what you want to run with Hawke, if that numbering is a concern for you. But
as Gryphon points out first and foremost Mystic is a BBS platform with NNTP functionality added for access to JAM bases.

g00r00 may well wish to comment in the future on this, but it is what it is, and if it's not meeting your needs Hawke then a native NNTP server with all that comes with it e.g. INN , may be a better option for you?

Thanks for the feedback and comments guys.

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (21:1/101)

Hello Gryphon!

* In a message originally to Hawke, Gryphon said:

Yes, this is how MUTIL Message pack works. As a BBS sysop, I don't
like
having gaps in message numbering.

That's how Mutil does work, but it also does a few other things, some
nice some not so nice that aren't exactly standard. For instance it
forces word wrap when it tosses messages that come from other systems
that do not embed the CR/LF in it. That's a nice thing to do but most
other systems including Golded will word wrap on the fly... which is
nice if you want to use something more than 80 columns.

Maybe Message Pack is not the right option for you if you want to use
nntp.

I'm now using RAMSG that comes with the last version of RA... it packs
as JAM was intended to be packed (after all it was written by the
authors who designed the JAM message base). I simply put my retention specifications in my ELCONFIG (which all the config files are RA
styile .ra files).

Since I have been packing the message bases with it my NNTP reader
problems have resolved. Another bonus is that it rebuilds and repairs
the JAM base's index files when needed. MUTIL has no repair
capability and if you have something go south with a JAM base it can
detect and fix it. I had a very large JAMbase under mystic that got
corrupted and I never knew it got corrupted. Once RAMSG rebuilt and
reindexed everything my matrix message reader started working again on
the mystic side. I don't know what happened to the base but I only
lost 2 corrupted messages when it was repaired... which is an
acceptable loss on the large rec.food.cooking list that my users (I
have foodied) like.

So basically, it's behaving exactly as expected.

No... it's not... older legacy sorgwares like JAMNNTPD and RA Itself
(where JAM was born) do not renumber the messages when you pack.
Fastecho and GECHO (tossers that had input from the developers of jam)
did not renumber. You can force Ramsg, and fastecho/gecho's
maintainance programs to renumber but the JAM base is designed to
literally have a very high message number. I've had them numbered in
the millions on some newsgroups.

You have to remember that Mystic and the JAM message base are
first and foremost, BBSes and for BBSes. The addition of NNTP was
a hack at best with a means to add functionality and access to the BBS-Style message bases. This does not mean that the Mystic or JAM
message bases are lacking in any way. It seems to me, if NNTP is
your primary focus, then it might be best to run a native NNTP
server. A person should not use a hammer as a screwdriver, and
expect the same results as a screwdriver.

Actually I've been around for 30+ years... I have alpha and betatested Remoteaccess... and I can assure you that it was one of the first
systems out there that handled usenet. The JAM message base is not
exclusive to Mystic... I have all the technical specs for it somwehere
around here. We are actually using the right tools.. if you want to
truly see what NNTP can do try loading up a copy of JAMNNTPD it can
sit right on top of your mystic installation.

I believe that Mystic will eventually get where it needs to be. It's
got a great programmer... and it has a lot of awesome people working
on it.

Unfortunately, it is a piece of software that is still very much an
Alpha... not even a Beta. The developer is brilliant and cranks out
bug fixes, new features and new code faster than what is humanly
possible. We are his test base and there are already some things to
be fixed upon his return.

If you really want to get an honest assessment of why Mystic isn't
popular in Zone 2 ask Bjorn Felten. He is very much in tune with the
JAM message base, FTS standards and can give G00R00 a lot of good
pointers on things that would make mystic better. He's been around continuously with mystic. He runs JAMNNTPD which can be dropped on
top of Mystic, that NNTP server is powerful and well developed only
thing is you have to manage a separate configuration from mystic.

Another person who could help things out a lot is Wilfred Van Velzen.
He is the developer of FMAIL nad FMAIL is open source as well. It may
greatly enhance mystic if someone could get FMAIL to read/write
mystic's configuration directly like it does for Remoteaccess and
several other BBS Software that it supports. FMAIL is already
compatible with Mystic as it is, again you have to maintain a separate configuration file.

Mystic is good as it is now... but remember it's still in Alpha, and
soon (hopefully soon) G00R00 will come back to amaze us all... but I
don't see having every utility under one umbrella as a bad thing, but
why reinvent the wheel when there are other utilties out there that
are compatible with mystic and add to it strenghts not take away from
them. Right now G00R00 is the single point of development... and
without him Mystic stands still, frozen in time. I pray that G00R00
is in good health and is enjoying the time with his family. I am
looking forward to his return.

Hawke

... But not Spam, Spam, Bacon, Eggs and Spam Quiche.
--- LiveWire
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Telnet://livewirebbs.com (21:1/148)

Hello Avon!

12 Oct 16 12:14, you wrote to Gryphon:

Thanks Hawke and Gryphon for your comments. Interesting to read all of
the above. I tend to agree with Gryphon that the NNTP side of Mystic
may not be what you want to run with Hawke, if that numbering is a
concern for you. But as Gryphon points out first and foremost Mystic
is a BBS platform with NNTP functionality added for access to JAM
bases.

jamNNTPD is replacing a lot of the old BBS's in Europe, where in the non-English speaking world, the users still participate. I would like to see Mystic become a solid platform... NNTP is absolutely needed... what I hope G00R00 will do when he returns is build on it a bit more and make it something that the mobile NNTP clients can use and mystic can interpret without having wierd formatting.

Google has already somewhat done this with Google groups. I can use Newstap on
my ipad and interact with GG and it figures out the formatting.

If we make alternative ways for people to access Mystic other than telnet, then
we can really get the Mystic Mothership off the ground. In exploring the compatibility with other 3rd party softwares I am also finding that Mystic does
have some corruptions in large message bases... it fixed my index message reader problem (although I have to go fix dinner, eat dinner, watch a 30 min tv
show to come back and wait a few more minutes for it to gather up all it needs) the index message reader is working once more... mutil lacks any ability
to check the JAM bases for errors.

The fix was simple two bad messages were purged and packed out of rec.food.cooking and BAM everything started working again perfectly.

g00r00 may well wish to comment in the future on this, but it is what
it is, and if it's not meeting your needs Hawke then a native NNTP
server with all that comes with it e.g. INN , may be a better option
for you?

I'm already looking at JAMNNTPD as a possibiltiy. I've never said I don't like
Mystic... in fact I'm -very- fond of it. But it is still very much an Alpha and the development was very fast paced. Not having G00R00 here is almost like
having digital constipation. There's already been a few bugs found... and there's always room for improvement.

But the one thing I liked most about mystic is how fast G00R00 can crank out quality code... there's absoultely no other program out there, that I know of, that has came so far in so little time. Yeah... I'm a fan. :-)

You can say I'm "stress testing" the software now. You've been over here virtually an dknow I am absolutely pushing Mystic to it's limitations. What you don't know is I'm very impressed at how well it's handling it. The -ONLY- reason why I am not using mystic's fido tosser is the duplicate database limitation and the lack of the ability to lock down certain hub-specific echos from my feeds. I suspect that's something that is an easy fix that G00R00 could probably do in his sleep.

Allen

Thanks for the feedback and comments guys.

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (21:1/101)

Allen


... Binary: Possessing the ability to have friends of both sexes.
--- LiveWire
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Telnet://livewirebbs.com (21:1/148)

On 10/11/16, Allen Prunty pondered and said...

soon (hopefully soon) G00R00 will come back to amaze us all... but I
don't see having every utility under one umbrella as a bad thing, but
why reinvent the wheel when there are other utilties out there that
are compatible with mystic and add to it strenghts not take away from them. Right now G00R00 is the single point of development... and

Because a key appeal of Mystic is to offer everything you need for a FTN
system BBS/Mailer/Tosser etc. without having the need to phaff about with all the other interdependent 3rd party software.. Mystic makes it simple and keeping it simple, as you know around here, is what it's all about ;-)

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (21:1/101)

On 10/11/16, Allen Prunty pondered and said...

concern for you. But as Gryphon points out first and foremost Mystic is a BBS platform with NNTP functionality added for access to JAM bases.

jamNNTPD is replacing a lot of the old BBS's in Europe, where in the non-English speaking world, the users still participate. I would like
to see Mystic become a solid platform... NNTP is absolutely needed...

Well that's up to the author to determine, and as you point out there are
other options and folks can always use those options if they wish.

If we make alternative ways for people to access Mystic other than
telnet, then we can really get the Mystic Mothership off the ground. In

You have Telnet, FTP, SSH (under development), there are servers for POP3 and SMTP (for BBS email), there's built in BinkP - to me that's quite a few ways
to interact with the environment already :)

g00r00 may well wish to comment in the future on this, but it is what it is, and if it's not meeting your needs Hawke then a native NNTP server with all that comes with it e.g. INN , may be a better option for you?

I'm already looking at JAMNNTPD as a possibiltiy. I've never said I
don't like Mystic... in fact I'm -very- fond of it. But it is still

I never said you didn't like Mystic, rather just suggesting use something
else that suits your needs... and it looks like you are. So all good.

But the one thing I liked most about mystic is how fast G00R00 can crank out quality code... there's absoultely no other program out there, that
I know of, that has came so far in so little time. Yeah... I'm a fan.

I have see a lot of very talented good dev work done over the last few years
I have been active in the Mystic world. I doff my cap to g00r00 also for all that has been added etc. over the last couple of releases from 1.10 to 1.11
and now onto 1.12 .. it's amazing stuff.

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (21:1/101)

* In a message originally to Allen Prunty, Avon said:

Because a key appeal of Mystic is to offer everything you need for
a FTN system BBS/Mailer/Tosser etc. without having the need to
phaff about with all the other interdependent 3rd party software..
Mystic makes it simple and keeping it simple, as you know around
here, is what it's all about ;-)

That is true... and it's great for beginners that is why I reccomend
it. In all honesty I would not reccomend my setup now to ANY beginner
it is complex, but I need the complexities to do what I need.

In all honestly my system is becoming less a BBS for users and more a
hub for other sysops. I am now a full fledged filegate hub... which
means if any mystic sysop wants to pick up files from the filegate I
can serve them up.

I am serving sysops now... and glad to do it. I applaud everything
you have done Paul and I'm thankful for the help you have given me...
and I hope that I can return the favor sometime.

To be honest... I would love to have everything I am doing go under
one umbrella with Mystic. While I'm all about simple it's nice to
have the power under the hood to do more when the time comes to step
up.

And who says that the power doesn't have to be elegantly simple too?

Allen

... Beef up your life... Have a cow, Man!

--- LiveWire
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Telnet://livewirebbs.com (21:1/148)

* In a message originally to Allen Prunty, Avon said:

I never said you didn't like Mystic, rather just suggesting use
something else that suits your needs... and it looks like you are.
So all good.

And hopefully the day will come when I -can- bring it all back under
one umbrella... hopefully soon ;-).

I have see a lot of very talented good dev work done over the last
few years I have been active in the Mystic world. I doff my cap to
g00r00 also for all that has been added etc. over the last couple
of releases from 1.10 to 1.11 and now onto 1.12 .. it's amazing
stuff.

Not trying to rush him back but have you heard from him? How is he
doing?

Allen

... Beware of low-flying butterflies.

--- LiveWire
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Telnet://livewirebbs.com (21:1/148)

On 10/11/16, Allen Prunty said the following...

Hello Gryphon!

* In a message originally to Hawke, Gryphon said:

Yes, this is how MUTIL Message pack works. As a BBS sysop, I don't like
having gaps in message numbering.

That's how Mutil does work, but it also does a few other things, some
nice some not so nice that aren't exactly standard. For instance it forces word wrap when it tosses messages that come from other systems
that do not embed the CR/LF in it. That's a nice thing to do but most other systems including Golded will word wrap on the fly... which is
nice if you want to use something more than 80 columns.

You are going to have to prove that mutil is doing the word wrap and that
it's not a product of the original post.

Maybe Message Pack is not the right option for you if you want to use nntp.

I'm now using RAMSG that comes with the last version of RA... it packs
as JAM was intended to be packed (after all it was written by the
authors who designed the JAM message base).

As JAM was intended to be packed? Is that a stated objective standard I
hadn't heard about? Like I said before. I don't like gaps in my message bases. So MUTIL packs it just fine according to my standards.

Since I have been packing the message bases with it my NNTP reader problems have resolved. Another bonus is that it rebuilds and repairs
the JAM base's index files when needed. MUTIL has no repair
capability and if you have something go south with a JAM base it can detect and fix it. I had a very large JAMbase under mystic that got corrupted and I never knew it got corrupted. Once RAMSG rebuilt and reindexed everything my matrix message reader started working again on
the mystic side. I don't know what happened to the base but I only
lost 2 corrupted messages when it was repaired... which is an
acceptable loss on the large rec.food.cooking list that my users (I
have foodied) like.

One wonders why you aren't using RA/FE/FD if it all meets your need so perfectly.

So basically, it's behaving exactly as expected.

No... it's not... older legacy sorgwares like JAMNNTPD and RA Itself (where JAM was born) do not renumber the messages when you pack.

Does JamNNPTD pack messages? I thought it was just a server, not a packer. Again, if RA does exactly what you want, why are you buggering about Mystic?

Fastecho and GECHO (tossers that had input from the developers of jam)
did not renumber. You can force Ramsg, and fastecho/gecho's
maintainance programs to renumber but the JAM base is designed to literally have a very high message number. I've had them numbered in
the millions on some newsgroups.

You have to remember that Mystic is not RA and FE and GECHO are not MUTIL. Because one app does not completely mimic the features and functions of
another app, does not make the one app a broken app.

You have to remember that Mystic and the JAM message base are
first and foremost, BBSes and for BBSes. The addition of NNTP was
a hack at best with a means to add functionality and access to the BBS-Style message bases. This does not mean that the Mystic or JAM message bases are lacking in any way. It seems to me, if NNTP is
your primary focus, then it might be best to run a native NNTP
server. A person should not use a hammer as a screwdriver, and
expect the same results as a screwdriver.

Actually I've been around for 30+ years... I have alpha and betatested Remoteaccess... and I can assure you that it was one of the first
systems out there that handled usenet. The JAM message base is not exclusive to Mystic... I have all the technical specs for it somwehere around here. We are actually using the right tools.. if you want to
truly see what NNTP can do try loading up a copy of JAMNNTPD it can
sit right on top of your mystic installation.

I've been on the BBS scene for 27+ years, and I've purchased and used RA, TBBS/TIMS/FLAME/TDBS and WWIV software packages. One thing that is
abundantly clear with regards to BBS packages, is that they cater to BBS
usage. It doesn't matter if Andrew made RA 'handle' usenet, it was still just an added feature that was not native to the technology. He just did it
because it was in demand; just like g00r00 did it with Mystic. Even so, FastEcho, GECHO and FrontDoor are not even part of the RemoteAccess package,

I believe that Mystic will eventually get where it needs to be. It's
got a great programmer... and it has a lot of awesome people working
on it.

For many of us, it is exactly where it needs to be. It cannot be all things
to all people.

Unfortunately, it is a piece of software that is still very much an Alpha... not even a Beta. The developer is brilliant and cranks out
bug fixes, new features and new code faster than what is humanly
possible. We are his test base and there are already some things to
be fixed upon his return.

How do you rate the difference between Alpha and Beta. Lets be honest. The BBS field has largely been an hobbyist field.

If you really want to get an honest assessment of why Mystic isn't
popular in Zone 2 ask Bjorn Felten. He is very much in tune with the
JAM message base, FTS standards and can give G00R00 a lot of good
pointers on things that would make mystic better. He's been around continuously with mystic. He runs JAMNNTPD which can be dropped on
top of Mystic, that NNTP server is powerful and well developed only
thing is you have to manage a separate configuration from mystic.

I don't give a flying fart what other 'zones' think about Mystic. I can't remember the last time I called any zone 2 BBS so it's pretty much a non-starter for me. Mystic's features and abilities that I like are not tied up in the message networks. Mystic does ANSI wonderfully, is highly configurable, and gives me user interaction features that I value over simple message relay systems.

There was a time when Mystic did not have native message network
functionality. I was originally of the mind that Mystic should stick with
what it does best; ie a BBS. But g00r00 did a wonderful job with the message network functionality that I've come to rely on it as my only app. I've eliminated the need for a telnet server, a binkp server, an external tosser like crashmail or hpt, yaqn (and ftp for QWK networks) or even jamnntpd.
There was a time when I had to run and maintain each and every one of those external apps and utilities. Those were a pain in the ass to keep them all strait and aligned with Mystic. HPT (and the husky project) is a demon of a beast to first compile, and then to configure, and then to use properly. Jamnntpd had to be updated all the time to maintain the user list. The
simple telnet server that was available did not block the script kiddies.

Another person who could help things out a lot is Wilfred Van Velzen.
He is the developer of FMAIL nad FMAIL is open source as well. It may greatly enhance mystic if someone could get FMAIL to read/write
mystic's configuration directly like it does for Remoteaccess and
several other BBS Software that it supports. FMAIL is already
compatible with Mystic as it is, again you have to maintain a separate configuration file.

The structures for Mystic data files are openly available. Instead of getting g00r00 to incorporate FMAIL into Mystic, maybe you can get Wilfred to update FMAIL.

Mystic is good as it is now... but remember it's still in Alpha, and
soon (hopefully soon) G00R00 will come back to amaze us all... but I
don't see having every utility under one umbrella as a bad thing, but
why reinvent the wheel when there are other utilties out there that
are compatible with mystic and add to it strenghts not take away from them. Right now G00R00 is the single point of development... and
without him Mystic stands still, frozen in time. I pray that G00R00
is in good health and is enjoying the time with his family. I am
looking forward to his return.

Yes, g00r00 is the single point of development for Mystic. But as you
stated, not one single other utility author has opted to assist with outside utilities. It sounds to me like you are griping about g00r00 not being able
to fix your issues; issues that you have admitted can be done with external utilities. Why then are you harping on Mystic and g00r00 when you should be harping on other utility authors to make utilities that you find acceptable?

"No matter where you go, there you are!" - Buckaroo Bonzai

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
* Origin: Cyberia BBS | Cyberia.Darktech.Org | Kingwood, TX (21:1/120)

* In a message originally to Allen Prunty, Gryphon said:

Yes, g00r00 is the single point of development for Mystic. But as
you stated, not one single other utility author has opted to
assist with outside utilities. It sounds to me like you are
griping about g00r00 not being able to fix your issues; issues
that you have admitted can be done with external utilities. Why
then are you harping on Mystic and g00r00 when you should be
harping on other utility authors to make utilities that you find acceptable?

Oh but I am :-).... trust me I'm talking to them in German... and
there may be some Christmas surprises that we all may like.

Mystic is a wonderful package and it does a lot more that I want than
the other softwares do. I like the user security in it. I like the
way the FTP is working... and I like the way it does NNTP... the only
thing that breaks mystic's NNTP is the renumbering of the bases.

The demarcation between NNTP and the BBS side is the NNTP Client
manages the last read pointer on it's side and not the BBS client.
When the NNTP messages bases are renumbered the NNTP cliet gets
confused and does not download new messages.

The simple fix is that any message base set up for NNTP MUTIL can pack
and not renumber that's probably something that can be implemented
with a toggle in MUTIL.INI renumber or not renumber. WOuld make the
NNTP feature of mystic completely solid at that point.

The other issues I have are really very simple issues to fix... the
duplicate database count increased from 250,000 to a larger count
would immediately fix my tossing issues... the security for the
hubbing can be copied over from the user security at a later date...
again something that may not be so simple as a toggle switch, but I'm
sure most of the code to do it is already in the user security code.

Avon can tell you I am pushing the envelope with mystic and I don't
think that is a bad thing.

As for the wrapping at the margin, that is done when mystic tosses and
it does a great job of it. Many older BBS's did not hard code the
word wrap at 80 as there were some people that used 40 column back in
the day. In that case it stored the messages much like HTML does with
no hard carraige returns (this is why the NNTP Clients send in
everything without carraige returns) all mystic needs to do is reparse
and break everything at 80, (or a bit less for future quoting) columns
that fixes everything as well.

The origional JAM utilties in RA do not renumber the message bases
unless you force them to. Quite honestly it's a matter of taste for
all I am concerned you like it renumbered... I actually do in my local
bases... but for anything that NNTP touches it should not be
renumbered and most of my users are using NNTP clients right now. I
want to keep everyhing as compatible for the NNTP users as I can
because that seems to be where it is at for now.

Most of this new generation of computer users would shit eggrolls if
they had to do something with a dos prompt. Unfortunately, they don't
have a clue how to use a command line BBS they just simply haven't
been exposed to it.

Allen

... All real programs contain errors.

--- LiveWire
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Telnet://livewirebbs.com (21:1/148)

On 10/12/16, Hawke pondered and said...

Avon can tell you I am pushing the envelope with mystic and I don't
think that is a bad thing.

All I know is I have looked at your setup 1-2 times and you had many bases
and lots of messages in each. If that's pushing the envelope as you define it then so be it.

To my mind you're just doing more messages and more bases and if there's an issue with that in terms of how mystic handles those numbers then let g00r00 know the specifics so he can reproduce the issue and opt to fix it.

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (21:1/101)

* In a message originally to Hawke, Avon said:

To my mind you're just doing more messages and more bases and if
there's an issue with that in terms of how mystic handles those
numbers then let g00r00

I will probably have to burn my site to a CDRom and send it to him. I
honestly think he will be interested in taking a look at it :-)

Allen

... Boy, I'm tellin you fer yer own good, I studied them things.

---
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Telnet://livewirebbs.com (21:1/148)

On 10/15/16, Hawke pondered and said...

To my mind you're just doing more messages and more bases and if there's an issue with that in terms of how mystic handles those numbers then let g00r00

I will probably have to burn my site to a CDRom and send it to him. I honestly think he will be interested in taking a look at it :-)

All good Hawke :)

Keep up the good work.

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
* Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (21:1/101)