A while ago, March of 2020, I was arrested for DWI, driving while intoxicated.

I won't even try to say I wasn't drunk as a skunk. I'd been drinking all day, and I was found to have double the legal limit, or 0.16...

It took a full year to get through the system, but I proved to the Court that
I wasn't driving, and hadn't driven at all that day.

But.

In ONTARIO, if you're charged with DWI, your car is impounded for seven
days, immediately. If you want your car back, you have to pay the impound
fees. If you don't pay, your car gets auctioned off.

In ONTARIO, your license is suspended for three months, immediately. If you want your license back, you have to pay the reinstatement fee, which
ironically is about the same as the impound fees.

Which means I had to pay a $900 (500 impound, 400 reinstate) fine, even though I was INNOCENT!

Here's the most annoying part: I brought this up with the judge. And he said, and I quote: "This is a federal court. You've been found not guilty of a federal crime. This court does not interfere with provincial law."

That's funny...last time I checked, the federal courts always supersede the provincial courts, just like the Supreme Court supersedes you, ya dick!

But.

No. Pay us. Nobody cares if you're innocent, except you. If you don't pay
us, you can't drive.

I'm not one of those guys who wipe their ass on dollar bills. My wallet took
a big hit because of those fines, and I actually had to sell my car (at
a loss) before the case even finished, just to stay afloat.

All because my neighbour and I didn't get along that day, and they called
911 and gave them my plates.

Small wonder why people think I'm antisocial. \(@_@)/

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

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It took a full year to get through the system, but I proved to the Court that I wasn't driving, and hadn't driven at all that day.

Actually, closer to two years. I didn't get the court's decision until last October...

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

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Hello McDoob!

** On Monday 20.12.21 - 17:34, McDoob wrote to All:

A while ago, March of 2020, I was arrested for DWI, driving
while intoxicated.

[...]

It took a full year to get through the system, but I proved
to the Court that I wasn't driving, and hadn't driven at
all that day.

[...]

All because my neighbour and I didn't get along that day,
and they called 911 and gave them my plates.

But.. Where were you when the cops showed up? You should have
had all that thrown out if you were NOT in the driver's seat.

Which means I had to pay a $900 (500 impound, 400
reinstate) fine, even though I was INNOCENT!

They could probably impound your car no matter who was driving
the car at the time, but I'm surprised it was impounded if the
driver (a friend) as NOT deemed DWI? This is why I ask.. WHO
was caught driving the car?

Here's the most annoying part: I brought this up with the
judge. And he said, and I quote: "This is a federal court.
You've been found not guilty of a federal crime. This court
does not interfere with provincial law."

Sounds like the judge is nudging you to take the original
reinstatement fine matter to provincial court. Now that you had
a successful ruling at the Federal level for relatable
incident, you should be able to have the $900 reversed, no?


--- OpenXP 5.0.50
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

But.. Where were you when the cops showed up? You should have
had all that thrown out if you were NOT in the driver's seat.

I was sitting on my porch, when the police arrived. Not far from where my
care was parked. Close enough to get arrested.

I didn't even have my keys in my pocket, which is why the judge eventually found me not guilty.

They could probably impound your car no matter who was driving
the car at the time, but I'm surprised it was impounded if the
driver (a friend) as NOT deemed DWI? This is why I ask.. WHO
was caught driving the car?

Again, my car hadn't moved all day. I even told the officer to feel my stone-cold hood. They didn't care.

"Your plate was reported, that's all I need to arrest you."

_<t)

Sounds like the judge is nudging you to take the original
reinstatement fine matter to provincial court. Now that you had
a successful ruling at the Federal level for relatable
incident, you should be able to have the $900 reversed, no?

Actually, that had never occured to me...I was too busy being annoyed to
notice that nudge, I suppose. I will have to check for this in case law, see
if anyone else has tried that.

However, I would assume that anything I bring before provincial court will incur its own fee, since that's how they're playing...It would be pointless
to pay, say...$500...in legal fees, just to possibly waste it all.

"Never throw good money after bad."

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)

BY: McDoob(21:4/135)

I think you should run for Provincial Assembly and change the laws for the better.


--- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
* Origin: inland utopia * socal usa * iutopia.mooo.com:2023 (21:4/108)

I think you should run for Provincial Assembly and change the laws for
the better.

You're joking right? (o_O?)

A) I don't disagree with the law, here. People who drink and drive should not be allowed on the road. I got screwed, but that doesn't mean I disagree.

B) Me? I have neither the skills nor the patience to get into politics.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

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On 12-20-21 21:30, McDoob wrote to Utopian Galt <=-

I think you should run for Provincial Assembly and change the laws for
the better.

You're joking right? (o_O?)

A) I don't disagree with the law, here. People who drink and drive
should not be allowed on the road. I got screwed, but that doesn't mean
I disagree.

I've read your experience, and while I'm all for tough drink driving laws - we have some pretty tough ones here too), I don't think you should be able to be charged with DWI without proper proof of the offence - i.e. being behind the wheel, or deliberately avoiding a breath test (which is treated here as equivalent to the highest level of drink driving).

The cop should at least have to do basic checks (like was the engine warm?), before you can be charged. If someone tips them off, that should be a call to investigate, not charge without gathering enough evidence first.


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I've read your experience, and while I'm all for tough drink driving
laws - we have some pretty tough ones here too), I don't think you
should be able to be charged with DWI without proper proof of the
offence - i.e. being behind the wheel, or deliberately avoiding a breath test (which is treated here as equivalent to the highest level of drink driving).

Refusing a breath test is actually a separate charge in Canada, I think. I
did have the chance to speak with a lawyer that night, and he very clearly warned me not to refuse. Not that there was any point in refusing. As I said,
I was drunk enough for plenty of obvious signs (smell, stumbling, slurred speech) to manifest.

The cop should at least have to do basic checks (like was the engine warm?), before you can be charged. If someone tips them off, that
should be a call to investigate, not charge without gathering enough evidence first.

The Ontario Provincial Police seem to have a different point of view, at
least in my town. To paraphrase an old saying, "Arrest 'em all. Let the courts sort it out."

This isn't the first time I've had to fight a bogus charge.

Electric bicycles (e-bikes) have recently been introduced (and are very popular) in Ontario. I was once pulled over and fined $600 because I had zip-ties on the pedals (they fold, and would drag on the ground, unless held out of the way).

According to the officer, that was an 'illegal modification'. Therefore, my e-bike was now an electric vehicle and, since I didn't have my license, a license plate, or insurance, I was deserving of a massive fine.

At the end of all that, I didn't even get into the courtroom. The Crown (prosecution) dismissed that case immediately.

They should have done the same with my DWI, but instead they built their case around the 911 call statement from my neighbour, who (big surprise) never showed up to bear witness. The judge did mention an "utter lack of evidence" when he gave his decision.

Things are very different elsewhere in Canada, where the RCMP are the police, not the Obviously Puerile Pricks! t(>_<t)

Sorry. /rant

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

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Re: Re: Guilty, until proven innocent, according to Ontario
By: McDoob to Vk3jed on Wed Dec 22 2021 01:26 pm

The Ontario Provincial Police seem to have a different point of view, at least in my town. To paraphrase an old saying, "Arrest 'em all. Let the courts sort
out."

That is very much the Spanish way when it comes to administrative penalties.

This is specially bad when it comes to the 1/92 Public Safety Law, which is widely
regarded by law enforcers as the law you can use to screw anybody. It became quite
unpopular when the government introduced some modifications to allow cops to screw
protestors, but I was already preaching against it before it was mainstream. And proud
of it.

The basics of the Public Safety Law is that they can confiscate anything dangerous you
carry on you unless you have a justification for carrying it. The implication is that
if they find you walking with a baseball bat, you have to demonstrate you are on the
way to a baseball game, or they take the bat from you and initiate prosecution.

What happens in practice are variations of:

1) Some cop sees you using some cool tool he wants to himself, so he takes it from you
under the pretense that you are carrying an unautorized dangerous item. If you are not
given a recepit for the item chances are it will disappear from the evidence room and
the cop will keep it.

2) Some cop is falling behind of his quota, so he charges you with some bullshit
accusation and tells you that the court will sort it out. Then the court takes the
case and tells you that, if the cop accused you in the first place, he had his reasons
and you deserve what you get.

Some funny backfires I have seen:

*) Somebody carries an actual illegal weapon, but the court dismisses the case becase
the guy managing it does not recognize the item in the list of illegal weapons (say,
the weapon is a knucleduster, but the law lists it under an archaic name from the 19th
century and the prosecutor gazes it over).

*) Some cop arrests somebody because he is carrying an item which is similar to an
illegal weapon, but it is not an illegal weapon (for example, assisted opening pocket
knives are legal in Spain but are easy to mistake for switchblades which are in the
list of illegal weapons). The cop gets a nice reprimand for being such an asshole.

Then they wonder why ACAB shirts are so popular (and, by the way, ACAB shirts are
illegal under the 1/92 laws).


--
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On 12-22-21 13:26, McDoob wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Refusing a breath test is actually a separate charge in Canada, I

I think it may be a different charge here, but effectely treated like the worst case of DWI.

think. I did have the chance to speak with a lawyer that night, and he very clearly warned me not to refuse. Not that there was any point in refusing. As I said, I was drunk enough for plenty of obvious signs (smell, stumbling, slurred speech) to manifest.

Yeah but no obvious sign that you were actualy driving!

The Ontario Provincial Police seem to have a different point of view,
at least in my town. To paraphrase an old saying, "Arrest 'em all. Let
the courts sort it out."

If I was the magistrate, I'd have warmed up my throwing arm. :D

This isn't the first time I've had to fight a bogus charge.

Electric bicycles (e-bikes) have recently been introduced (and are very popular) in Ontario. I was once pulled over and fined $600 because I
had zip-ties on the pedals (they fold, and would drag on the ground, unless held out of the way).

That's odd. They're increasingly common here too, hopefully I'll get one myself, actually. But other than some illegal models, I've seen no issues
ere.

According to the officer, that was an 'illegal modification'.
Therefore, my e-bike was now an electric vehicle and, since I didn't
have my license, a license plate, or insurance, I was deserving of a massive fine.

The most common illegal ebikes here are those with excess power (> 250W), don't shut off the motor when not pedalling, or keep the motor running above 25 km/h.
Any of those makes it a "motorbike", which requires a different licence, registration and a motorbike helmet.

At the end of all that, I didn't even get into the courtroom. The Crown (prosecution) dismissed that case immediately.

Good. :)

They should have done the same with my DWI, but instead they built
their case around the 911 call statement from my neighbour, who (big surprise) never showed up to bear witness. The judge did mention an
"utter lack of evidence" when he gave his decision.

I agree, the court should have thrown that case out immediately.

Things are very different elsewhere in Canada, where the RCMP are the police, not the Obviously Puerile Pricks! t(>_<t)

Haha fair enough. :)

I had something funny happen last week. Got pulled over by the cops just 100m up the road while on the way home. Then they sat there for a bit, n one got out, and finally they left, but said as they went past "Sorry, we were after someone else". :) Like a lot of the local cops, they were pretty friendly.


... A fool and his money are SYSOP material.
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The most common illegal ebikes here are those with excess power (>
250W), don't shut off the motor when not pedalling, or keep the motor running above 25 km/h. Any of those makes it a "motorbike", which
requires a different licence, registration and a motorbike helmet.

There's actually two kinds of e-bikes here, and a bit more to this story...

What you're describing is what we'd call a 'ped-elec' or electric assist
bike. Not the same as an 'e-bike', as defined in Ontario.

What I drive is more like a limited electric motorcycle. By law, I must be wearing a helmet, and the bike must have working pedals, max 500W, and 32
km/h. Oh, and 150 Kg. If they meet these requirements, then they are still considered a 'pedestrian vehicle', much like the mobility devices you would
see an older person using.

Not that I would confirm this outside of this forum, but my particular model may or may not (laugh at) exceed some of those limits. The officer may or may not have noticed me doing the ACTUAL speed limit, but definitely could not
get a radar reading on a mostly plastic and carbon fiber bike. There may or
may not be a secret switch that imposes the required limits, that I may or
may not have used when I was pulled over.

But, all that could be confirmed were the zip ties on my pedals. (^_^)

"Sorry, we were after someone else". :) Like a lot of the local cops, they were pretty friendly.

For the most part, if you're friendly, they're friendly. Here, same as there.

Unfortunately for me, I'm a bit of an asshole, sometimes. I just can't seem to help myself, especially around cops with an attitude...ANYone with an
attitude, really...

Maybe I really am turning into a grumpy old man, one year at a time...Damn kids...GET OFF MY LAWN! \(>_<)/

... A fool and his money are SYSOP material.

AHAHA! Joke's on you! Didn't cost me anything!

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

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McDoob wrote to Vk3jed <=-

What I drive is more like a limited electric motorcycle. By law, I must
be wearing a helmet, and the bike must have working pedals, max 500W,
and 32 km/h. Oh, and 150 Kg. If they meet these requirements, then they are still considered a 'pedestrian vehicle', much like the mobility devices you would see an older person using.

Sounds like the distinction between Mopeds and scooter/motorcycles. Limited speed and a helmet needed. Vehicle license plates came later, and I don't think you need a license to ride them.

One of the BBS posters from the south in the US posted about middle-aged
guys getting their licenses taken away for drunk driving offenses and riding mopeds to the bar because their licenses were taken away.

Not that I would confirm this outside of this forum, but my particular model may or may not (laugh at) exceed some of those limits. The
officer may or may not have noticed me doing the ACTUAL speed limit,
but definitely could not get a radar reading on a mostly plastic and carbon fiber bike. There may or may not be a secret switch that imposes the required limits, that I may or may not have used when I was pulled over.

Their was/is a group in San Francisco called moped army that would make
these cool looking rat bike/cafe racer mopeds that easily exceeded the 30
mph limitation mopeds had. Thankfully, SFPD didn't look cool ticketing kids
on mopeds.


... Eval Day 1005
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Sounds like the distinction between Mopeds and scooter/motorcycles. Limited speed and a helmet needed. Vehicle license plates came later,
and I don't think you need a license to ride them.

Anything with a gas engine requires a license and insurance here, even a
moped. But "e-peds" and "e-scooters" (limited in speed) are not restricted.
It seems silly to make a distinction specifically on the type of motor, but there it is.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

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On 12-23-21 15:23, McDoob wrote to Vk3jed <=-

What I drive is more like a limited electric motorcycle. By law, I must
be wearing a helmet, and the bike must have working pedals, max 500W,
and 32 km/h. Oh, and 150 Kg. If they meet these requirements, then they are still considered a 'pedestrian vehicle', much like the mobility devices you would see an older person using.

Hmm, I'm not sure we have this category here

But, all that could be confirmed were the zip ties on my pedals. (^_^)

They had to find something, I guess. :)

"Sorry, we were after someone else". :) Like a lot of the local cops, they were pretty friendly.

For the most part, if you're friendly, they're friendly. Here, same as there.

Yep, that policy generally works fr me, aided by the fact that at times I'm working alongside the cops (when I arrive in a big red truck ;) ) at road crashes and other incidents.

Unfortunately for me, I'm a bit of an asshole, sometimes. I just can't seem to help myself, especially around cops with an attitude...ANYone
with an attitude, really...

Hmm, that doesn't help. :)

Maybe I really am turning into a grumpy old man, one year at a
time...Damn kids...GET OFF MY LAWN! \(>_<)/

Haha, they say low testosterone can be a factor, not uncommon as we get older, though there are ways of slowing down or even preventing that.

... A fool and his money are SYSOP material.

AHAHA! Joke's on you! Didn't cost me anything!

Haha I haven't spent a real lot either, last significant investment was a SSD for around $60. :)


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On 12-24-21 09:28, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to McDoob <=-

Sounds like the distinction between Mopeds and scooter/motorcycles. Limited speed and a helmet needed. Vehicle license plates came later,
and I don't think you need a license to ride them.

Yeah I don't know what the requirements for riding a moped here are.


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Again, my car hadn't moved all day. I even told the officer to feel my stone-cold hood. They didn't care.

"Your plate was reported, that's all I need to arrest you."

_<t)

Sounds like a money-making scheme for the province. :(




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Again, my car hadn't moved all day. I even told the officer to feel m stone-cold hood. They didn't care.
"Your plate was reported, that's all I need to arrest you."

_<t)

Sounds like a money-making scheme for the province. :(

Exactly.

McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net

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Again, my car hadn't moved all day. I even told the officer to

feel my

Sounds like a money-making scheme for the province. :(

It's exactly what it is. The police here in Ontario have no pride.

:-)


Mickey - Mick Manning
Test Driving the new Talisman Model 35
-------------------------


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