Hi there!

I found a problem during my weekly backup cycle and I thought I would share it here.

I am a throughtful person, and one of the things I am the most throughtful about is backing my
computers up. I am not going to bore you with the details, but in short: every week, I checksum
the files in running computers, turn them off, boot them using a live system, and dump the
computer's content in an external hard drive.

I have a snapshots of the most important computers that can be traced back to 2016, all of them
with their checksum lists so they can be verified. I run integrity checks on the computer's
contents before dumping in order to ensure I am dumping clean data.

Why am I saying this?

Because for a freaking decade, people has been telling me I am wasting time, I am an autistic
loser or whatever have you. Still, yesterday I found two files that have been rendered
defective due to what I presume to be a hard drive error.

So the lessons to take are the following ones:

* Check the integrity of your files before backing them up.
* Backup lots.
* Check the freaking integrity of both the original data and the backups.
* If somebody mooks your dedication to filesystem integrity and labels you an Asperger or
whatever, you run yet another integrity check on both the backups and the original data and
laught manically when the guy who made fun of you loses all his data to a crash.

Thanks for listening. Now go make backups.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Hello Arelor!

** On Sunday 11.04.21 - 15:15, Arelor wrote to All:

I have a snapshots of the most important computers that can
be traced back to 2016, all of them with their checksum
lists..

How many computers does this process encompass?

..yesterday I found two files that have been rendered
defective due to what I presume to be a hard drive error.

Don't some files/bits deteriorate over time? So... for two
files that wouldn't be unusual?

So the lessons to take are the following ones:

* Check the integrity of your files before backing them up.

How? It's not possible to test each and every file against the
app that it is designed for.

* Backup lots.

I don't do that nearly enough. :( I don't have the extra HDD
or NAS system for something regular.

* Check the freaking integrity of both the original data and
the backups.

Isn't it the job of the backup process to check integrity of
what is copies?

* If somebody mooks your dedication to filesystem
integrity.. ^^^^^

New word for me!

backups and the original data and laught manically when the
guy who made fun of you loses all his data to a crash.

You wouldn't hear from that someone. They would probably cry in
private.


--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

Re: The importance of integrity checks
By: Ogg to Arelor on Sun Apr 11 2021 08:25 pm

** On Sunday 11.04.21 - 15:15, Arelor wrote to All:

I have a snapshots of the most important computers that can
be traced back to 2016, all of them with their checksum
lists..

How many computers does this process encompass?

That'd be two workstations which get complete full dumps.

I also have two personal servers, but those have a different backup cycle that is automated and runs with the machines on.

Since you asked, most user files that deserve to be backed up are actually unchanging ones. Once you store a bunch of foal pictures in a folder, it is unlikely you are going to perform any writes on it. This is the reason why you can make a list of checksums for the files in the critical user folders, compare to the list you took last week, and come up with a very, very short list of changes - if everything is going well, at least.

If you have this automated, you can run a full OS integrity database by excluding the files you know to change frequently.

Backup software usually ensures that the stuff you just copied over to a new drivehas been copied properly, but it can't check if the files you backed up last week have been tampered with by the nazi communist goblins of Doom. You have to run those tests yourself.

Most people suffers their data loss issues in silence, but you can still catch 'em from time to time. I am only a jerk about it if they have been jerks to me, though :-P

BTW accidental file corruption due to bits rotting or drive errors does not seem to be a very frequent thing for typical domestic users.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Thanks for listening. Now go make backups.

Thanks, Arelor... I might not have all the specialized knowledge to do this effectively - but I know who to ask... :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/02/12 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

computers up. I am not going to bore you with the details, but in short: every week, I checksum
the files in running computers, turn them off, boot them using a live system, and dump the
computer's content in an external hard drive.

Why am I saying this?

Because for a freaking decade, people has been telling me I am wasting time, I am an autistic
loser or whatever have you. Still, yesterday I found two files that have been rendered
defective due to what I presume to be a hard drive error.

So the lessons to take are the following ones:

* Check the integrity of your files before backing them up.

Integrity checking and checksum checking are important for critical data
and you're not wasting time for doing it.... But you are probably
causing yourself extra needless headaches by doing it manually. Checksum
based integrity checking and repair is a central feature of ZFS. Only
downside of just using a filesystem that will handle it is that you do
need to be running ECC memory. But you really should be for anything
critical anyways.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: bbs.undermine.ca:423 - Calgary, AB (21:4/103)

Re: Re: The importance of integrity checks
By: paulie420 to Arelor on Mon Apr 12 2021 02:37 pm

Thanks for listening. Now go make backups.

Thanks, Arelor... I might not have all the specialized knowledge to do this effectively - but I know who to ask... :P

|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

Hahaha, I used to have a VERY popular blog series in a Spanish Debian related forum, about backup strategies and tools. Sadly, the site is online no more since the administrator took it down.

This month's Linux Magazine comes with Clonezilla. Maybe it is a Divine sign or something :-)

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Re: Re: The importance of integrity checks
By: Underminer to arelor on Tue Apr 13 2021 02:15 am

computers up. I am not going to bore you with the details, but in short: every week, I checksum
the files in running computers, turn them off, boot them using a live syst and dump the
computer's content in an external hard drive.

Why am I saying this?

Because for a freaking decade, people has been telling me I am wasting tim I am an autistic
loser or whatever have you. Still, yesterday I found two files that have b rendered
defective due to what I presume to be a hard drive error.

So the lessons to take are the following ones:

* Check the integrity of your files before backing them up.

Integrity checking and checksum checking are important for critical data
and you're not wasting time for doing it.... But you are probably
causing yourself extra needless headaches by doing it manually. Checksum based integrity checking and repair is a central feature of ZFS. Only downside of just using a filesystem that will handle it is that you do
need to be running ECC memory. But you really should be for anything critical anyways.

I don't do the checks manually. It is automated. However, it is automated at userspace level.

I have considered pushing the files to a file server with ZFS, but I can't justify the expense. I actually have some ECC machines in my Electronic Junk Cabinet, but it is ancient stuff. I think any thing I own that can host more than two had drives is already put to service elsewhere or is more noisy than a chainsaw in a zombie movie.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

I don't do the checks manually. It is automated. However, it is automated at userspace level.

The automation is good, but personally I'd want to at least move it to a crontab unless the tools themselves require otherwise. But if that's the
case I'd probably look at different tools :)

Cabinet, but it is ancient stuff. I think any thing I own that can host more than two had drives is already put to service elsewhere or is more noisy than a
chainsaw in a zombie movie.

Noise is certainly a concern. With COVID related changes I had to move
one of my server stacks to the same room as the office.... I managed to
build a rack cabinet that takes 4 2u servers to quieter than the traffic
noise outside if I crack the window, a single desk fan running for air,
or just the drive noise in the one NAS that's not currently in the
cabinet. Honestly that whole cabinet is typically quieter than some
desktop systems I've run. The secret sauce is not to do what most people
on youtube do and build a sturdy cabinet and then punch big holes for ventilation, but to run long switchback ventilation channels and put
acoustic panels wherever airflow direction changes to bleed off the
energy from the sound waves before the exaust air exits - just like a
car muffler.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: bbs.undermine.ca:423 - Calgary, AB (21:4/103)

Hahaha, I used to have a VERY popular blog series in a Spanish Debian related forum, about backup strategies and tools. Sadly, the site is online no more since the administrator took it down.

This month's Linux Magazine comes with Clonezilla. Maybe it is a Divine sign or something :-)

--

Lol... I have a clonezilla USB and disc that I use to ghost drives on retro computers before I go playing with them too much... always seem like when I don't, thats the HDD that stops spinning at that very moment. :P

Thanks for the hints and tips - and I would read an Arelor blog, if one found its way to the interwebs. :P

Cheers, and don't let anyone tell you to NOT hoard your data in the exact ways you want to. :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/02/12 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Don't some files/bits deteriorate over time? So... for two files

Bit rot... you find it a lot in floppys. Not so much ECC going on with them, and the media is less stable. Still the same applies to HDDs and probably to a lesser degree SSDs. There's actually a lot of errors on most magnetic media, its only error correction that keeps things spinning. But you get enough sequential errors and it eventually all falls in a screaming heap. Errors like to breed too... where you find one, more are sure to follow.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

BTW accidental file corruption due to bits rotting or drive errors does not seem to be a very frequent thing for typical domestic users.

Most errors are by nature going to be small single bit errors, at least initially, and in "data" you may never really notice it. I'm not sure I agree with the appraisal of infrequency though. It may well relate in this day and age to a far higher turn over of media due to relative low cost. Its not like the good old days where you paid >$1/Meg and hung onto it forever trying to eke the last of its existance out of it :)

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

Re: Re: The importance of integrity checks
By: paulie420 to Arelor on Tue Apr 13 2021 07:36 am

Hahaha, I used to have a VERY popular blog series in a Spanish Debian related forum, about backup strategies and tools. Sadly, the site is online no more since the administrator took it down.

This month's Linux Magazine comes with Clonezilla. Maybe it is a Divine sign or something :-)

--

Lol... I have a clonezilla USB and disc that I use to ghost drives on retro computers before I go playing with them too much... always seem like when I don't, thats the HDD that stops spinning at that very moment. :P

Thanks for the hints and tips - and I would read an Arelor blog, if one foun its way to the interwebs. :P

Cheers, and don't let anyone tell you to NOT hoard your data in the exact wa you want to. :P

|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

Good news here! It turns out the Wayback Machine has a copy of the old blog: https://web.archive.org/web/20150914133346/http://black-rider.esdebian.org/tag/ 33766/backup

Bad news is that it is in Spanish.

The Advanced Tar usage article is golden. I didn't remember I had written it.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Re: The importance of integrity checks
By: Spectre to Arelor on Mon Apr 12 2021 10:08 pm

BTW accidental file corruption due to bits rotting or drive errors does not seem to be a very frequent thing for typical domestic users.

Most errors are by nature going to be small single bit errors, at least initially, and in "data" you may never really notice it. I'm not sure I agre with the appraisal of infrequency though. It may well relate in this day and age to a far higher turn over of media due to relative low cost. Its not li the good old days where you paid >$1/Meg and hung onto it forever trying to the last of its existance out of it :)

Spec

*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]

Floppies and old optical media develop bit errors, or worse, quite often. If you are older-school than me and are thinking of that sort of thing, then yeah, data errors come in massive heaps.

I think that, for my personal systems, I am facing the equivalent of 3 fatal read errors / (20 TB * year).

If you extrapolate to what a regular consumer may be using, it turn out an average user will have a single fatal read error during the lifetime of the drive (this asumes 2 TB drives running for 4 years). Actually, 1.2 errors, but let's round it down :-P


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

I think that, for my personal systems, I am facing the equivalent
of 3 fatal read errors / (20 TB * year).

out an average user will have a single fatal read error during
the lifetime of the drive (this asumes 2 TB drives running for 4
years). Actually, 1.2 errors, but let's round it down :-P

Those are some good numbers. Not sure about rounding down a .2 error though :) Or maybe thats a soft error instead of a hard error.. :P One of the largest problems I've always had until very recently, is the lack of media to make any real backups on. But having lost a HEAP of video data on an experimental shared jbod. I have far less to back up :) So going forward it might be more of a plan.

Spec


--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: (21:3/101)

BTW accidental file corruption due to bits rotting or drive errors not seem to be a very frequent thing for typical domestic users.

Hi, i am backing up all my data onto Blu-ray disks. eventualy i will back up
on to 50 gig M-Disk, as they area carbon based and rated by nasa for 1000 years. what i wish i had were the "superman memory crystal drives" basicly a circular disk of quartz crystal that perminantly etchs data into the crystal simular to a dvd. it is rated to last millions of years. i think HP was the
one who is pioneering that.

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Re: re: The importance of integrity checks
By: gcubebuddy to Arelor on Wed Apr 14 2021 12:29 pm

BTW accidental file corruption due to bits rotting or drive err not seem to be a very frequent thing for typical domestic users

Hi, i am backing up all my data onto Blu-ray disks. eventualy i will back up on to 50 gig M-Disk, as they area carbon based and rated by nasa for 1000 years. what i wish i had were the "superman memory crystal drives" basicly a circular disk of quartz crystal that perminantly etchs data into the crystal simular to a dvd. it is rated to last millions of years. i think HP was the one who is pioneering that.

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

Quartz media storage sounds awesome for archival. I have to look that up. I wonder how is availability for that thing.

I use a lot of optical media, but not for backups anymore. Optical media is very cheap but it is damn slow.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

On Wednesday, April 14th Arelor muttered...

I think that, for my personal systems, I am facing the equivalent of 3 fatal read errors / (20 TB * year).

Backblaze and Google keep and publish some stats on bitrot. I can say from working at a backup company the threat is real. What you want is partiy and redundancy if you _really_ care about your data.


--
|08 ■ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 ■ |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 ■ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 14.15.4)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

Good news here! It turns out the Wayback Machine has a copy of the old blog: https://web.archive.org/web/20150914133346/http://black-rider.esdebian.org

Bad news is that it is in Spanish.
The Advanced Tar usage article is golden. I didn't remember I had
written it.

Thanks for sharing - I know a LITTLE Spanish and..yea; you got more traffic than I ever did, 2500 viewers. :P

I'll take a peek and - thanks Arelor. Appreciated.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/02/12 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

I use a lot of optical media, but not for backups anymore. Optical media is very cheap but it is damn slow.

Ya, i use it for making sure i have a backup incase of a massive hard drive failure. not so much OS stuff, but media files and what not that i dont want
to lose.

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Re: re: The importance of integrity checks
By: gcubebuddy to Arelor on Fri Apr 16 2021 12:02 pm

I use a lot of optical media, but not for backups anymore. Optical medi is very cheap but it is damn slow.

Ya, i use it for making sure i have a backup incase of a massive hard drive failure. not so much OS stuff, but media files and what not that i dont want to lose.

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

I was thinking, my main use for optical media nowadays is for hosting live operating systems or installers.

A lot of people think owning massive ammounts of recovery disks is out of style, but when things go south, it is great to have some Linux Magazine DVD around to perform recovery or reinstall from. Specially if you live in a rural place and downloading a proper Operating System is going to take the whole afternoon.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

A lot of people think owning massive ammounts of recovery disks is out of style, but when things go south, it is great to have some Linux Magazine DVD around to perform recovery or reinstall from. Specially if you live
in a rural place and downloading a proper Operating System is going to take the whole afternoon.

Right! exactly..

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Hello gcubebuddy!

** On Wednesday 14.04.21 - 12:29, gcubebuddy wrote to Arelor:

Hi, i am backing up all my data onto Blu-ray disks.
eventualy i will back up on to 50 gig M-Disk, as they area
carbon based and rated by nasa for 1000 years. what i wish i
had were the "superman memory crystal drives" basicly a
circular disk of quartz crystal that perminantly etchs data
into the crystal simular to a dvd. it is rated to last
millions of years. i think HP was the one who is pioneering
that.

I can't imagine how long it will take to burn a 50gig disk!

Then.. after all that work, you may be concerned that after all
that work a compatible and working reader exists after 30+ years
later.


--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

I can't imagine how long it will take to burn a 50gig disk!
Then.. after all that work, you may be concerned that after all
that work a compatible and working reader exists after 30+ years
later.

Ya thats why i have been thinking about keeping a Bluray burner in an
external USB case. along with either a laptop or a RPi4 or something to
mount / access the disks from. and then put that in a rubber lined metal
trash can and seal it with electricians tape, to protect it from EMP
radiation from things like solar flares. that way it can be stored for a long time. for a "just incase" scenario.

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

gcubebuddy wrote to Ogg <=-

I can't imagine how long it will take to burn a 50gig disk!
Then.. after all that work, you may be concerned that after all
that work a compatible and working reader exists after 30+ years
later.

Ya thats why i have been thinking about keeping a Bluray burner in an external USB case. along with either a laptop or a RPi4 or something
to mount / access the disks from. and then put that in a rubber lined metal trash can and seal it with electricians tape, to protect it from
EMP radiation from things like solar flares. that way it can be stored
for a long time. for a "just incase" scenario.

Depending on what the data is, you might consider a cloud storage
service instead. I have to pay for Microsoft Office annually for work,
so I have 1TB of space on OneDrive - 50GB is nothing. I would put it
all there and not worry about it. But, if it's private info, other than encrypting it first, maybe you don't want to do that.

... If plugging it in doesn't help, turn it on.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Depending on what the data is, you might consider a cloud storage
service instead. I have to pay for Microsoft Office annually for work,
so I have 1TB of space on OneDrive - 50GB is nothing. I would put it
all there and not worry about it. But, if it's private info, other than encrypting it first, maybe you don't want to do that.

Ya its close to about 8 TB of data. basicly mostly videos on my Plex server.
i bought 3x 8 tb drives that i am using for my ProxMox system. that runs both my Plex server / Virtal NAS, and also both my bbs-prod, and bbs-dev servers.
i am looking at getting a RPi4 8 gig so i can put my BBS on it. i was going
to house it in a US Robotics 56k shell lol.
that way, i can migrate all the bbs stuff to the RPi4, and shut down the
extra VMs when not in use. also in case of a tornado - as i live in tornado alley, i can just grab the BBS box and run lol.

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

gcubebuddy wrote to Elf <=-

Ya its close to about 8 TB of data. basicly mostly videos on my Plex server. i bought 3x 8 tb drives that i am using for my ProxMox system. that runs both my Plex server / Virtal NAS, and also both my bbs-prod,
and bbs-dev servers. i am looking at getting a RPi4 8 gig so i can put
my BBS on it. i was going to house it in a US Robotics 56k shell lol.

US Robotics 56k shell . . . Awesome. :-)

that way, i can migrate all the bbs stuff to the RPi4, and shut down
the extra VMs when not in use. also in case of a tornado - as i live in tornado alley, i can just grab the BBS box and run lol.

Sounds like you have your priorities in order ;-)

... Doing my part to preserve order in the universe
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Sounds like you have your priorities in order ;-)

lol, ya i always try to have a backup in place. however, i *Borrowed* alot
more movies from a streaming service that shall remain un-named lol. so i
have dubble what i had when i was backing everything up. really i need to
get 50 to 80 gig M-Disks so i can back up all my media again, including the files i have stored on the NAS.

Oh hey by the way, i saw you just stopped by my site... im sure you probably saw the new theme up on the site. i had a small bug with trying to sign on to MRC chat, but its fixed now. :-)

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

BY: gcubebuddy(21:4/129)


|11g|09> |10i am looking at getting a RPi4 8 gig so i can put my BBS on it. i was|07
|11g|09> |10going|07
|11g|09> |10to house it in a US Robotics 56k shell lol.|07

That's what I've done. I'm running my BBS on a RPi4 4GB, and it's in a US R 56k shell. I need to finish wiring up a board for the LEDs and connect it to the Pi, I've already got python script to simulate the lights for the modem.

-Morgul
/-------------------------------------------------------------\
| The Trading Post [SOUTH] BBS - Telnet: ttps.dyndns.org:2323 |
| WWIVNet - Fidonet - StarNet - FSXNet - SFNet |
| HobbyNet - PiNet | \-------------------------------------------------------------/


--- WWIV 5.7.1.0001
* Origin: ** The Trading Post [SOUTH] BBS -=- Columbia, SC ** (21:1/207)

Re: Re: The importance of integrity checks
By: Elf to gcubebuddy on Wed Apr 28 2021 04:30 pm

gcubebuddy wrote to Ogg <=-

I can't imagine how long it will take to burn a 50gig disk!
Then.. after all that work, you may be concerned that after all
that work a compatible and working reader exists after 30+ years
later.

Ya thats why i have been thinking about keeping a Bluray burner in an external
USB case. along with either a laptop or a RPi4 or something
to mount / access the disks from. and then put that in a rubber lined metal tr
can and seal it with electricians tape, to protect it from
EMP radiation from things like solar flares. that way it can be stored for a long time. for a "just incase" scenario.

Depending on what the data is, you might consider a cloud storage
service instead. I have to pay for Microsoft Office annually for work,
so I have 1TB of space on OneDrive - 50GB is nothing. I would put it
all there and not worry about it. But, if it's private info, other than encrypting
first, maybe you don't want to do that.

... If plugging it in doesn't help, turn it on.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

Everytime I consider cloud storage myself, I and up running aways from it, screaming
like a madman.

My main concern is that even if the cloud provider is trustworthy, recovery times
suck. If you have a total computer crash and need to rebuild from 2TB worth of backups, you can do it in less than a day if you have local copies of the data, but it
will take ages if you have to fech the data from some Internet resource. I suppose
cloud storage works better if you have faster Internet than I do (an specially, more
_reliable_ Internet than I do).

There is also people who uploads their data to a remote file storage service and have
their files in that service ONLY. They place their data there and consider that, since
the service has a six-nines reliability level and its own back-up procedure, the data
can be considered safe by default and no extra precautions are to be taken. This is
not the case, actually... data centers can burn down and the storage provider may fail
you in ltos of ways so having your data up there alone is not enough. Cloud storage is
just a hard drive floating on the internet. It is not a backup strategy, just a tool
you can use as part of a backup strategy.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Ya thats why i have been thinking about keeping a Bluray burner in an external USB case. along with either a laptop or a RPi4 or something to

I still have a boxful of drives that go back as far as cd-rom, even dvd-rom. I find at different times some of the disc's that pop up read better in one drive or another. When I have space and hardware I occasionally leave a beast set up with 6 optical drives in it.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

That's what I've done. I'm running my BBS on a RPi4 4GB, and it's in a
US R 56k shell. I need to finish wiring up a board for the LEDs and connect it to the Pi, I've already got python script to simulate the lights for the modem.

wow thats really cool!

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

I still have a boxful of drives that go back as far as cd-rom, even dvd-rom. I find at different times some of the disc's that pop up read better in one drive or another. When I have space and hardware I occasionally leave a beast set up with 6 optical drives in it.

ya that is a good idea.

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Arelor wrote to Elf <=-

Everytime I consider cloud storage myself, I and up running aways from
it, screaming like a madman.

My main concern is that even if the cloud provider is trustworthy, recovery times suck. If you have a total computer crash and need to rebuild from 2TB worth of backups, you can do it in less than a day if
you have local copies of the data, but it will take ages if you have to fech the data from some Internet resource. I suppose cloud storage
works better if you have faster Internet than I do (an specially, more _reliable_ Internet than I do).

There is also people who uploads their data to a remote file storage service and have their files in that service ONLY. They place their
data there and consider that, since the service has a six-nines reliability level and its own back-up procedure, the data can be considered safe by default and no extra precautions are to be taken.
This is not the case, actually... data centers can burn down and the storage provider may fail you in ltos of ways so having your data up
there alone is not enough. Cloud storage is just a hard drive floating
on the internet. It is not a backup strategy, just a tool you can use
as part of a backup strategy.

I agree with you 100%. I thought he was looking for an archive-style
backup solution. But for your main backup solution, agreed, it's too
slow both directions as far as I'm concerned. All my daily backups are
to local hard drives. Even my family photos are backed up locally, but
I also back them up to Flickr automatically via my smartphone. They
actually sync to my computer via SyncThing then get backed up locally
while also getting uploaded to Flickr from the smartphone. I think for irreplaceable data like family photos, off-site storage is a must,
regardless of how long it would take you to re-download it. Your house
is far more likely to burn down (or get robbed) than a data center. And
your home is a single point of failure, datacenters are replicated in
multiple geographical locations.

But for a place to throw some stuff that you want to keep but don't use
that often, I think cloud storage is a good option - especially if you
are running low on disk space. You can throw it up there and remove it
from your system. Worrying about a data center burning down is not an
issue. Data centers like Microsoft, Google, Amazon are geographically
spread around and replicated so your data is not just at one cloud
service provider or on a single hard drive. It's on multiple hard
drives and at multiple data centers and kept synchronized between them
all. So your data is pretty darn safe. Your biggest risk is if it's information you want kept private, then you need to encrypt it yourself
before uploading it - or just don't upload it. Although cloud providers promise it's safe and encrypted even from their eyes, I don't trust it
in that regard.

... If your ship doesn't come in, it's time you swim out.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Hello gcubebuddy!

** On Wednesday 28.04.21 - 13:12, gcubebuddy wrote to Ogg:

I can't imagine how long it will take to burn a 50gig
disk! Then.. after all that work, you may be concerned
that after all that work a compatible and working reader
exists after 30+ years later.

Ya thats why i have been thinking about keeping a Bluray
burner in an external USB case. along with either a
laptop or a RPi4 or something to mount / access the disks
from. and then put that in a rubber lined metal trash can
and seal it with electricians tape, to protect it from EMP
radiation from things like solar flares. that way it can be
stored for a long time. for a "just incase" scenario.

An EMP event would certainly affect a variety of electronics.
Do you live in what you perceive to be a high-risk EMP target
area?

My guess is if an EMP attack were to take place, there would be
more important concerns than getting a bluray player to play
discs. ;)

Do you have an off-grid arrangement?


--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

An EMP event would certainly affect a variety of electronics. Do
you live in what you perceive to be a high-risk EMP target area?

My guess is if an EMP attack were to take place, there would be
more important concerns than getting a bluray player to play discs.
;)

Do you have an off-grid arrangement?

Well I'll keep my backups in a Farraday cage in the basement, engraved on shellac platters...or maybe bakelite for slightly extra durability ;)


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: We know where you live, we're coming round to get you (21:3/101)