• FreeBSD 12.2

    From Apam@21:1/182 to All on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 14:53:20
    RE: FreeBSD 12.2
    BY: All

    Anyone excited about 12.2 that came out today?!

    I'm installing it right now!

    (am I a nerd?)

    Andrew

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  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to Apam on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 01:08:28
    On 28 Oct 2020, 02:53p, Apam said the following...

    Anyone excited about 12.2 that came out today?!

    I haven't tried and BSD system yet. I've been a bit nervous, and I'm not sure why...

    I'm installing it right now!

    Maybe once I finish a few projects I'll take a look at it.

    (am I a nerd?)

    Probably. But that's alright. I think a lot of us are. ;)


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  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Apam on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 07:16:48

    On Tuesday, October 27th Apam said...
    Anyone excited about 12.2 that came out today?!
    (am I a nerd?)

    Yes, and yes.

    I have a server that I've doing major updates with since 8.x. Currently at 11.1. Guess it's time for 12!

    The only thing is I wish I had ZFS on that box. If I ever have to do a clean install that will happen hehe




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  • From Rushfan@21:2/115 to Apam on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 14:14:05
    BY: Apam(21:1/182)


    Anyone excited about 12.2 that came out today?!

    A little, but I'll wait to update my NAS machine until the freenas/trunas folks
    update their image to pick it up.



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  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to Apam on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 18:08:47
    RE: FreeBSD 12.2
    BY: All

    Anyone excited about 12.2 that came out today?!

    I'm installing it right now!

    (am I a nerd?)

    Andrew

    And Fedora 33 dropped today. Gonna be a busy week.

    Any good news in FreeBSD 12.2?


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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Apam on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 18:55:17
    Re: FreeBSD 12.2
    By: Apam to All on Wed Oct 28 2020 02:53 pm

    RE: FreeBSD 12.2
    BY: All

    Anyone excited about 12.2 that came out today?!

    I'm installing it right now!

    (am I a nerd?)

    Andrew

    I am an OpenBSD dude, so I took notice of FreeBSD's release while upgrading some OpenBSD servers to 6.8 after some testing in staging servers :-)

    So, I appreciate it but I am not exactly excited.

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  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Apam on Thursday, October 29, 2020 12:59:15
    Heyp Apam,

    RE: FreeBSD 12.2
    BY: All

    Anyone excited about 12.2 that came out today?!

    I haven't used it since the 9.x days. #-)
    It ran the corner stone of a local ISP.


    I'm installing it right now!

    (am I a nerd?)

    Yes.




    \/orlon
    VK3HEG


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  • From Apam@21:1/182 to Nuskooler on Thursday, October 29, 2020 15:29:52
    RE: RE: FreeBSD 12.2
    BY: NuSkooler(21:1/121)


    I have a server that I've doing major updates with since 8.x. Currently
    at 11.1. Guess it's time for 12!

    Hehe nice!

    The only thing is I wish I had ZFS on that box. If I ever have to do a
    clean install that will happen hehe

    Yes, ZFS is really nice.

    Andrew

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  • From Apam@21:1/182 to Joacim Melin on Thursday, October 29, 2020 15:35:32
    RE: Re: FreeBSD 12.2
    BY: Joacim Melin(21:2/130)


    Any good news in FreeBSD 12.2?

    Seems to be working fine, I don't really know why I was excited, except that it
    has clang 10 now as default compiler, but why that is exciting i don't know.

    I generally compile everything from ports, rather than use binary packages, so it's slow going. I've got xfce up and running, compiled and installed firefox.

    However my RAM arrived today so my freebsd box has taken a back seat for now. :)

    Andrew

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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Apam on Thursday, October 29, 2020 19:18:07
    On 29 Oct 2020 at 03:35p, Apam pondered and said...

    However my RAM arrived today so my freebsd box has taken a back seat for

    Happy RAM arrival day :)

    I was looking at some old RAM I have here last night. My wife has passed to
    me the old PC from her mothers estate. It's a hp compact 8000 elite that uses DDR3 it seems... and I have DDR2 so no cigar this time but it was fun researching things.

    I may end up using that as the Linux box for now as I think dropping the HDD
    I had been using in the (still tied up) i3 system I had installed it on will likely work fine. Linux HDD are fairly forgiving of hardware it seems and
    just 'work' for the most part if you shift hardware... well that's what I am telling myself :)

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  • From Apam@21:1/182 to Avon on Thursday, October 29, 2020 17:32:13
    RE: Re: FreeBSD 12.2
    BY: Avon(21:1/101)


    I may end up using that as the Linux box for now as I think dropping the
    HDD
    I had been using in the (still tied up) i3 system I had installed it on
    will
    likely work fine. Linux HDD are fairly forgiving of hardware it seems
    and
    just 'work' for the most part if you shift hardware... well that's what
    I am
    telling myself :)

    Yep that should work just fine. Linux is usually setup to mount by part ids, rather than device nodes these days, so it shouldn't have any trouble. It might
    have trouble with grub finding the partition, which could be interesting.

    Happy RAM arrival day :)

    Thanks. It nearly wasn't. I installed the ram and it didn't boot! fans came on momentarily and then went off again. I installed a speaker so I could hear any beeps, and it just worked then. So not sure... I did accidently pull out the power switch lead when putting the speaker in, and plugged it back in again - perhaps that was loose? Who knows. It's working now.

    Andrew

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  • From deon@21:2/116 to Avon on Thursday, October 29, 2020 19:13:01
    Re: Re: FreeBSD 12.2
    By: Avon to Apam on Thu Oct 29 2020 07:18 pm

    I had been using in the (still tied up) i3 system I had installed it on
    will likely work fine. Linux HDD are fairly forgiving of
    hardware it seems and
    just 'work' for the most part if you shift hardware... well that's what I
    am telling myself :)

    And when you play with docker, it doesnt matter how that linux runs, or setup, what distro it is, etc - your container still just runs the same way...

    ...лоеп

    ... Just because everything is different doesn't mean anything has changed.
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  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to Apam on Thursday, October 29, 2020 13:40:17
    RE: Re: FreeBSD 12.2
    BY: Joacim Melin(21:2/130)


    Any good news in FreeBSD 12.2?

    Seems to be working fine, I don't really know why I was excited,
    except that it has clang 10 now as default compiler, but why that is exciting i don't know.

    I generally compile everything from ports, rather than use binary
    packages, so it's slow going. I've got xfce up and running, compiled
    and installed firefox.

    However my RAM arrived today so my freebsd box has taken a back seat
    for now. :)

    I did a in-place upgrade of my main workstation at home from Fedora 32 to 33 and it actually worked perfectly and there has been no issues yet.


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  • From tenser@21:1/101 to vorlon on Friday, October 30, 2020 09:21:08
    On 29 Oct 2020 at 12:59p, vorlon pondered and said...

    (am I a nerd?)

    Yes.

    Ooophf; softballed that one in there. :-)

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  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Avon on Friday, October 30, 2020 10:01:05
    I may end up using that as the Linux box for now as I think
    dropping the HDD I had been using in the (still tied up) i3 system
    I had installed it on will likely work fine. Linux HDD are fairly forgiving of hardware it seems and just 'work' for the most part if
    you shift hardware... well that's what I am telling myself :)

    Linux is not windows! The only thing I've had to do in the past is
    re-configure the network interface, and windows even has that issue.






    \/orlon
    VK3HEG


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  • From Apam@21:1/182 to Joacim Melin on Friday, October 30, 2020 16:08:51
    RE: Re: FreeBSD 12.2
    BY: Joacim Melin(21:2/130)


    I did a in-place upgrade of my main workstation at home from Fedora 32
    to 33 and it actually worked perfectly and there has been no issues yet.

    Cool. Fedora is a pretty good system, though I prefer OpenSUSE when it comes to
    linux, just really like YaST :)

    I didn't have freebsd 12.1 installed, but I think freebsd-update updates releases just fine too.

    Had been playing with adeile linux, it was an interesting distro, used APK packages (like Alpine) is musl based and uses the s6 init system.

    I'm not as keen on linux as I once was, and even find myself using windows 10 a
    lot more than I used to. At one time Linux was trying to be unix, now it seems to have surparsed that and is making up its way as it goes along.

    Stuff like wayland, systemd etc, while one could argue both sides of whether or
    not they are a good thing, they, (and many many other things) are written with linux only in mind. Using particular linixism or gnuisms that aren't portable. Open source was once about choice I thought, now it seems the choice is linux, and it's been made for you.

    Anyway, you didn't ask for my life story... sorry :P

    Andrew


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  • From Rushfan@21:2/115 to Apam on Friday, October 30, 2020 14:51:30
    BY: Apam(21:1/182)



    I'm not as keen on linux as I once was, and even find myself using
    windows 10 a lot more than I used to. At one time Linux was trying to be unix, now it seems to have surparsed that and is making up its way as it goes along.

    Have you used WSL2 in Win10 It's surprisingly good and I find myself using that
    more than booting up a separate VM for Linux. I know they are getting X apps to render too, I think at that point Win10 will be a good enough linux for most
    folks. "The year of theLinux Desktop".. lol

    Also at the direction MS is moving, I'd not be surprised if they just hoisted Win32 Win64 and WinStore APIs on top of the linux kernel and endedup rebasing everything on top of the linux kernel. Makes sense, Win10 just becomes another
    userland.



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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Rushfan on Saturday, October 31, 2020 20:17:00
    On 10-30-20 14:51, Rushfan wrote to Apam <=-

    Have you used WSL2 in Win10 It's surprisingly good and I find myself
    using that more than booting up a separate VM for Linux. I know they
    are getting X apps to render too, I think at that point Win10 will be a good enough linux for most folks. "The year of theLinux Desktop".. lol

    I'm led to believe WSL2 uses NAT rather than bridged networking (ick), and does it support Linux apps using sound devices?

    Also at the direction MS is moving, I'd not be surprised if they just hoisted Win32 Win64 and WinStore APIs on top of the linux kernel and endedup rebasing everything on top of the linux kernel. Makes sense, Win10 just becomes another userland.

    Hmm, that would be an interesting evolution. :)


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  • From Rushfan@21:2/115 to Vk3jed on Saturday, October 31, 2020 15:51:07
    BY: Vk3jed(21:1/109)


    I'm led to believe WSL2 uses NAT rather than bridged networking (ick),
    and does
    it support Linux apps using sound devices?

    I don't believe so yet, but looks like it's being looked at: https://github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/5816


    Win10 just becomes another userland.


    Hmm, that would be an interesting evolution. :)

    Yup, but Win16 was emulated on OS/2 also started by MS, so there is prior art.

    rushfan


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Rushfan on Monday, November 02, 2020 19:09:00
    On 10-31-20 15:51, Rushfan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    it support Linux apps using sound devices?

    I don't believe so yet, but looks like it's being looked at: https://github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/5816

    Cool, because for some of my use cases, I needed sound support, mainly because cross platform solutions for what I was trying to do at one stage were either proprietary or nonexistent. :(

    Win10 just becomes another userland.


    Hmm, that would be an interesting evolution. :)

    Yup, but Win16 was emulated on OS/2 also started by MS, so there is
    prior art.

    True. I used to love how OS/2 could run DOS, Windows and native applications together.


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  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to Rushfan on Tuesday, November 03, 2020 18:51:07
    BY: Apam(21:1/182)



    I'm not as keen on linux as I once was, and even find myself using A>> windows 10 a lot more than I used to. At one time Linux was trying to be A>> unix, now it seems to have surparsed that and is making up its way as it A>> goes along.

    Have you used WSL2 in Win10 It's surprisingly good and I find myself
    using that more than booting up a separate VM for Linux. I know they
    are getting X apps to render too, I think at that point Win10 will be
    a good enough linux for most folks. "The year of theLinux Desktop"..
    lol

    Also at the direction MS is moving, I'd not be surprised if they just hoisted Win32 Win64 and WinStore APIs on top of the linux kernel and endedup rebasing everything on top of the linux kernel. Makes sense,
    Win10 just becomes another userland.

    I've been using WSL2 quite a lot and it's fine. Performance is still not top-notch but it's ok. However, when it breaks and you need to re-install WSL2
    and loose _everything_ and have to re-install _everything_ then the love for WSL2 is not huge...


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  • From ryan@21:1/168 to Joacim Melin on Tuesday, November 03, 2020 13:13:28
    I've been using WSL2 quite a lot and it's fine. Performance is still not top-notch but it's ok. However, when it breaks and you need to
    re-install WSL2 and loose _everything_ and have to re-install
    _everything_ then the love for WSL2 is not huge...

    This happened to me once, after an upgrade. Agreed that this was a shitty experience...it was unrecoverable. I didn't try super hard but it was pretty frustrating.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Joacim Melin on Wednesday, November 04, 2020 09:41:00
    Joacim Melin wrote to Rushfan <=-

    I've been using WSL2 quite a lot and it's fine. Performance is still
    not top-notch but it's ok. However, when it breaks and you need to re-install WSL2 and loose _everything_ and have to re-install
    _everything_ then the love for WSL2 is not huge...

    I use Linux VMs as a jump box to get elsewhere at work, I'd like to
    be able to have a proper openSSH implementation in a local text
    console instead. I'll need to try it out, work is a few revs of
    Windows behind, and I don't think WSL2 is supported.




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  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to Apam on Tuesday, November 10, 2020 20:25:52
    RE: Re: FreeBSD 12.2
    BY: Joacim Melin(21:2/130)


    I did a in-place upgrade of my main workstation at home from Fedora 32 JM>> to 33 and it actually worked perfectly and there has been no issues yet.

    Cool. Fedora is a pretty good system, though I prefer OpenSUSE when it comes to linux, just really like YaST :)

    I didn't have freebsd 12.1 installed, but I think freebsd-update
    updates releases just fine too.

    Had been playing with adeile linux, it was an interesting distro, used
    APK packages (like Alpine) is musl based and uses the s6 init system.

    I'm not as keen on linux as I once was, and even find myself using
    windows 10 a lot more than I used to. At one time Linux was trying to
    be unix, now it seems to have surparsed that and is making up its way
    as it goes along.

    Stuff like wayland, systemd etc, while one could argue both sides of whether or not they are a good thing, they, (and many many other
    things) are written with linux only in mind. Using particular linixism
    or gnuisms that aren't portable. Open source was once about choice I thought, now it seems the choice is linux, and it's been made for you.

    Anyway, you didn't ask for my life story... sorry :P

    :-)

    Don't apologize, it's interesting! I also find that Linux tried to be Unix at some point but now I think it tries to be like Macos, there are a couple of Linux distributions that really try really hard to emulate the Macos look and feel... and mostly fail at it.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Joacim Melin on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 07:48:48
    Re: Re: FreeBSD 12.2
    By: Joacim Melin to Apam on Tue Nov 10 2020 08:25 pm

    Don't apologize, it's interesting! I also find that Linux tried to be Unix at som
    point but now I think it tries to be like Macos, there are a couple of Linux distributions that really try really hard to emulate the Macos look and feel... and
    mostly fail at it.

    Yeah, a lot of old times complain that Linux is trying to be another operating system
    instead of itself, which is bonkers.

    It reminds me of Windows people coming to Linux and asking how to use Microsft tools
    on it. Sorry, I you want to have a Windows experience you should be running Windows.
    You run Linux when you want the Linux experience.

    Thankfully there are lots of Linux distributions, so if one tries very hard to be
    something else, you can just jump to a sane one.

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  • From The C.E.O.@21:4/158.1 to Arelor on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 15:58:48
    RE: Re: FreeBSD 12.2
    BY: Arelor(21:2/138)


    It reminds me of Windows people coming to Linux and asking how to use Microsft tools
    on it. Sorry, I you want to have a Windows experience you should be
    running Windows.
    You run Linux when you want the Linux experience.

    The bulk of my experience with Linux has been at the console level / headless server, and that hasn't changed much in 20 years! Every once in a while I'll have a Linux desktop (e.g. on a Pi) and I'll feel completely lost. Everything feels sluggish and it's mostly poor user experience. Feels like a painted-on front end, where as MacOS was built from the ground up to make it easier and more intuitive to operate simple and complex tasks.

    I barely get by on a Windows machine, as well, although it seems to have gotten better over the years. Powershells, Run as Administrator, ISE -- just a mess.

    Interesting to see Microsoft embrace Linux at a deeper level, probably because it drives their Azure business (there are more Linux servers than Windows servers in Azure). Remember when Ballmer said "Linux is a cancer" ? Not so much any more.

    But it's a long way, still, from being a better desktop replacement for most people, I think.


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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to The C.E.O. on Thursday, November 12, 2020 03:58:25
    Re: Re: FreeBSD 12.2
    By: The C.E.O. to Arelor on Wed Nov 11 2020 03:58 pm

    It reminds me of Windows people coming to Linux and asking how to use Microsft tools
    on it. Sorry, I you want to have a Windows experience you should be running Windows.
    You run Linux when you want the Linux experience.

    The bulk of my experience with Linux has been at the console level / headles server, and that hasn't changed much in 20 years! Every once in a while I'll have a Linux desktop (e.g. on a Pi) and I'll feel completely lost. Everythin feels sluggish and it's mostly poor user experience. Feels like a painted-on front end, where as MacOS was built from the ground up to make it easier and

    To be honest, I don't think the experience of running a desktop operating system on a budget SBC can be taken as representative.

    On regular Wintel hardware, I have had success migrating people from Windows to Linux precisely because the experience is much less sluggish (on the same computer).

    Modern desktop environments in Linux attempt to be behemot style solutions with deep system integration and they feel much more like what you may expect from comercial operating systems. I personally prefer it when I am bolting on the tools I want in my environment in order to create my own frankensystem. That is the beauty of free operating systems: you can have them the way you want.

    Also, working with people who runs Apple products has destroyed any credibility Apple had regarding their claims that their software is much more user friendly and integrated than their competitors. They have done a lot of work regarding the design of the UX, but in the end of the day users come to me with the same problems - and often with moronic problems unique to their platform.


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  • From Bob Roberts@21:2/118 to Arelor on Thursday, November 12, 2020 09:24:01
    Also, working with people who runs Apple products has destroyed any credibility Apple had regarding their claims that their software is much more user friendly and integrated than their competitors. They have done a lot of work regarding the design of the UX, but in the end of the day users come to me with the same problems - and often with moronic problems unique to their platform.

    As an unabashed apple fanboy I feel they can do no wrong.

    However, I will admit frustration with the lack of transparency in many of their services. Things like iCloud sync, handoff, etc can be nearly impossible to troubleshoot due to the lack of UI feedback as to whats going on in the background. All part of their effort to make things "like magic." But it wouldn't kill them to hide more useful diagnostics in the UI somewhere.

    |01bobbobbobbob|09bob|03bob|11bob|03bob|09bob|01bobbobbob |01robrobrobrob|09rob|03rob|11rob|03rob|09rob|01robrobrob
    |07
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