Many will not recognize it, because their message readers don't support visual threading, but I find it impossible to follow a bigger thread in FSX_GEN. It only needs a few people that use editors which don't set the REPLY kludge and the reply threading breaks with every message they send.

Is it the QWK readers (or the QWK format) that don't support REPLY kludges?

---
* Origin: (21:3/102)

Hello Oli,

Many will not recognize it, because their message readers don't
support visual threading, but I find it impossible to follow a bigger thread in FSX_GEN. It only needs a few people that use editors which
don't set the REPLY kludge and the reply threading breaks with every message they send.

Is it the QWK readers (or the QWK format) that don't support REPLY kludges?

I think that is an offline issue. QWK or other readers upload a new reply without any kludges. The BBS can add the MSGID and TZUTC but doesn't know what the original MSGID is to add a REPLY kludge.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Is it the QWK readers (or the QWK format) that don't support REPLY kludges

?

QWK supports replyids - it has an in-reply-to message number which the
BBS should match to the FTN msgid.

Is it me that's been messing up reply kludges? Or some one else?

Andrew


--- TitanFTN (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Wunderlust BBS - wunderlust.ddns.net:2023 (21:1/126)

I think that is an offline issue. QWK or other readers upload a new reply

without any kludges. The BBS can add the MSGID and TZUTC but doesn't know what
the original MSGID is to add a REPLY kludge.


That's not true, QWK messages have a message number, and qwk replyes have
a reply to message number.

It's the BBS responsibility to look up the reply number in the qwk
message header and get the original MSGID kludge.

Andrew


--- TitanFTN (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Wunderlust BBS - wunderlust.ddns.net:2023 (21:1/126)

Hello Oli,

Is it the QWK readers (or the QWK format) that don't support
REPLY kludges?

I think that is an offline issue. QWK or other readers upload a new
reply without any kludges. The BBS can add the MSGID and TZUTC but
doesn't know what the original MSGID is to add a REPLY kludge.

That isn't universally true, I see apam's uploads with his new reader do include a MSGID and REPLY kludge.. so I guess if the kludge information is available, and inserted into the reply and the reader supplies that info to the
BBS it is possible, at least at the BBS where apam uploaded that reply.

I do often see offline replies without a REPLY kludge though. I think most offline implementations don't support that but it seems Synchronet does.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Hello apam,

I think that is an offline issue. QWK or other readers upload a
new reply without any kludges. The BBS can add the MSGID and TZUTC
but doesn't know what the original MSGID is to add a REPLY kludge.

That's not true, QWK messages have a message number, and qwk replyes
have a reply to message number.

Is that part of the standard QWK spec?

It's the BBS responsibility to look up the reply number in the qwk
message header and get the original MSGID kludge.

Yes, I saw your message had a REPLY kludge. I don't often look at kludges but that's the first time I have seen a QWK uploaded message with both a MSGID and REPLY kludge.

I wonder if some QWK door implementations miss that detail but it seems to work
between your new reader and Synchronet at least (if you were using Synchronet).

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Is that part of the standard QWK spec?

Yes.

Andrew


--- TitanFTN (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Wunderlust BBS - wunderlust.ddns.net:2023 (21:1/126)

apam wrote (2020-08-06):

Is it the QWK readers (or the QWK format) that don't support REPLY
kludges

?

QWK supports replyids - it has an in-reply-to message number which the
BBS should match to the FTN msgid.

good to know.

Is it me that's been messing up reply kludges? Or some one else?

Most messages are from pointdexter and Tiny, but it seems the messages from you
with TitanMail are also missing a REPLY kludge. Maybe a problem with the QWK door? It's really long long time ago the last time I used QWK (23+ years).

From: apam 21:1/100
To: Blue White
Newsgroups: FSX_GEN
Subject: Just seeing what happens when I have a long subject line
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 15:57:44 +1200

On Wed Jul 29 11:16:00 2020, Blue White wrote to apam <=-

[...]

=== TitanMail/linux v1.0.6

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

---
* Origin: (21:3/102)

Most messages are from pointdexter and Tiny, but it seems the messages fro

m you with TitanMail are also missing a REPLY kludge. Maybe a problem with the
QWK door? It's really long long time ago the last time I used QWK (23+ years)

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/10

I suppose given that the ones from TitanMail sent via synchronet had
reply kludges and those sent via mystic did not....

I don't know about Tiny or Poindexter, I think Tiny uses bluewave mostly
and I don't remember if that supports it. As for poindexter i thought he
used synchronet.

Andrew

--- TitanFTN (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Wunderlust BBS - wunderlust.ddns.net:2023 (21:1/126)

apam wrote to Oli <=-

I don't know about Tiny or Poindexter, I think Tiny uses bluewave
mostly and I don't remember if that supports it. As for poindexter i thought he used synchronet.

I do, and even if bluewave supported it I'm not sure if ezycom would.

Shawn

... Man invented language to satisfy his need to complain.

--- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
* Origin: Tiny's BBS - telnet://tinysbbs.com:3023 (21:1/130)

apam wrote (2020-08-06):

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz
(21:1/10

I suppose given that the ones from TitanMail sent via synchronet had
reply kludges and those sent via mystic did not....

That seems to be the case.

---
* Origin: (21:3/102)

apam wrote (2020-08-06):

I don't know about Tiny or Poindexter, I think Tiny uses bluewave mostly and I don't remember if that supports it. As for poindexter i thought he used synchronet.

Sending mails from MultiMail over Synchronet should generate REPLY kludges (AFAIK). No idea why it is not happening with pointdexter's mails.

---
* Origin: (21:3/102)

Re: Re: udable mess ess (missing REPLY kludges)
By: apam to Al on Thu Aug 06 2020 06:43 pm

Yes.

I know you are playing with QWK - but just noticed that this message I'm replying to doesnt have any TZ stuff - so for me it was posted "in the future".

when_written 5F2BC2A8 0000 Thu Aug 6 18:43:20 2020 UTC
when_imported 5F2BC364 1258 Thu Aug 6 18:46:28 2020 AEST

IE: It cant be written (by you) 18:43 UTC and imported by me 18:46 AEST on the same day...

Thought you might like to know...

...ëîåï

... Dachshunds are really small crocodiles with fur.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Re: unreadable mess (missing REPLY kludges)
By: Oli to apam on Thu Aug 06 2020 11:54 am

Most messages are from pointdexter and Tiny, but it seems the messages from you with TitanMail are also missing a REPLY kludge. Maybe a problem with the QWK door? It's really long long time ago the last time I used QWK (23+ years).

FWIW, I checked a couple of apams messages - and they did show in thread to me...

...ëîåï

... Training a child is more or less a matter of pot luck.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Hello Oli,

I think that is an offline issue. QWK or other readers upload a new
reply without any kludges. The BBS can add the MSGID and TZUTC but
doesn't know what the original MSGID is to add a REPLY kludge.

I use SLMR when reading QWK packets. It is old but it does seem to be
able to keep track of which message was replied to within the confines
of SLMR, even if I leave the packet and come back later. So, maybe it
is the BBS side, after the REP is uploaded, that cannot re-thread the
message?

#

--- MagickaBBS v0.15alpha (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)

IE: It cant be written (by you) 18:43 UTC and imported by me 18:46 AEST
on the same day...

I'm not sure what to do with that. The QWK specfication doesn't say whether date /times should be in UTC or localtime, and there is no timezone
information shared.

Hmm

Andrew

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Hello Blue,

@TZUTC: -0400
@CHRS: CP437 2
@MSGID: 21:4/134.0 5f2c4a1c
@REPLY: 21:4/106 5f2bb75c
@TID: MagiMail/Linux 1.0

I think that is an offline issue. QWK or other readers upload a
new reply without any kludges. The BBS can add the MSGID and
TZUTC but doesn't know what the original MSGID is to add a REPLY
kludge.

I use SLMR when reading QWK packets. It is old but it does seem to be able to keep track of which message was replied to within the confines
of SLMR, even if I leave the packet and come back later.

Yep, I quoted your kludges and there is a @REPLY in there.

So, maybe it is the BBS side, after the REP is uploaded, that cannot re-thread the message?

I think some QWK doors are not doing that so replies that go through those doors will not get an @REPLY kludge, unfortunatly. It works as one would hope with Synchronet, MagickaBBS and TitanFTN at least.

Some BBSs purge and pack their message bases at maint time also. I'm not sure if that would break a doors ability to apply the correct @REPLY kludge if that has happened between the QWK download and the .rep packet being uploaded.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

On Thursday, August 6th apam was heard saying...

I suppose given that the ones from TitanMail sent via synchronet had reply kludges and those sent via mystic did not....

Sync supports QWKE and additionally some (previously Sync specific, I think) additional kludges and extensions. I recently added QWK support to ENiG and was
supprised how many systems only support the basic QWK standard which is *extremely* limited.


--

NuSkooler
Xibalba BBS @ xibalba.l33t.codes / 44510(telnet) 44511(ssh)
ENiGMA 1/2 BBS WHQ | Phenom | 67 | iMPURE | ACiDic

--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.13.1)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

Is it the QWK readers (or the QWK format) that don't support REPLY kludges?

I don't know if my end is supporting reply kludge at all....

I can see why QWK would break them though... you can't be sure the message number will match when you drop the reply packet in. Unless you never do message base maintenance.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

I See my last reply does, interested to see if this one does too...

Spec


--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: (21:3/101)

And my first reply to myself doesn't have one....

It appears that The Reader uses reply kludges and SuperBBS isn't...

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

Hello Spectre,

@MSGID: 21:3/101 01212256
@REPLY: 21:3/102 5f2bb2d6
@PID: THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
@TZUTC: 1000
@NOTE: IceEdit 2.35 a00000
@TID: FastEcho 1.46.1 43276

I don't know if my end is supporting reply kludge at all....

Yep, those are your kludges up there..

I can see why QWK would break them though... you can't be sure the
message number will match when you drop the reply packet in. Unless
you never do message base maintenance.

It works sometimes but not always. I think some doors don't try to find the original message to look it up.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Hello Spectre,

@TZUTC: 1000
@NOTE: IceEdit 2.35 a00000
@TID: FastEcho 1.46.1 43276
I See my last reply does, interested to see if this one does too...

Hmm.. this one has no MSGID or @REPLY for some reason.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Hello Spectre!

** On Sunday 09.08.20 - 05:07, Spectre wrote to Spectre:

And my first reply to myself doesn't have one....
It appears that The Reader uses reply kludges and SuperBBS isn't...

*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
-+- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)

I guess SuperBBS isn't so super then! :(


--- OpenXP 5.0.45
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

Re: unreadable mess (missing REPLY kludges)
By: Spectre to Oli on Sun Aug 09 2020 04:33 am

I don't know if my end is supporting reply kludge at all....

This one has one - but I think I noticed that some messages from you havent in the past...

...ëîåï

... Spring---an experience in immoratality.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Re: unreadable mess (missing REPLY kludges)
By: Spectre to Spectre on Sun Aug 09 2020 05:05 am

I See my last reply does, interested to see if this one does too...

Nope :(

...ëîåï

... Humour is emotional chaos remembered in tranquillity.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

I See my last reply does, interested to see if this one does too...

Nope :(

Well that leads to an interesting state of affairs.. Reading new messages at logon, or posting an odd new message is done via Super. And I read the entire area through The Reader.

So if I stop replying to messages that I read during log on, and come back to them during the area read later the problem should be solved. Pretty much. I don't know how impotent the @MSGID actually is, but obviously a spanking new message doesn't really need a reply kludge. While the actual replies will then get a reply kludge from The Reader.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)

Hello Spectre,

And my first reply to myself doesn't have one....

It appears that The Reader uses reply kludges and SuperBBS isn't...

This is the last message I recieved from you on the 9th.

Has something changed since then?

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Hello Spectre,

This is the last message I recieved from you on the 9th.

Not at my end, but AlterusEgous has been playing and upgrading goodies... so maybe here is something there? I can see mine pack up and leave home... beyond that I canna say...

Spec


--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: (21:3/101)

On 14 Aug 2020, Spectre said the following...

This is the last message I recieved from you on the 9th.

Not at my end, but AlterusEgous has been playing and upgrading
goodies...

I thought as much.. Heh! :)

so maybe here is something there? I can see mine pack up and leave home... beyond that I canna say...

It's all good.. it just needed a little nudge to get it going in the right direction.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/11 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.2)

It's all good.. it just needed a little nudge to get it going in the right direction.

Bit of plunger plumbing is good for the flow.... or so they say... whoever they may be :)

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)