Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:51:43 -0400
From: DAVE GOURD
To: all
Subject: opera and wc frames
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1173711534.40.0@winserver.com>
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 40

Odd Opera behavior seen at my location; is this problem opera bug, or in
[wc] html, jscript, or css?

Anyone seen this else or is it just me?


looked at this on foxriver.net, winserver.com, beta.winserver.com
similar behavior with pre-previous wins build and current gamma

I did the following:
-open opera
-login (to site - i.e. beta.winserver.com)
-goto messaging or filing (use frame mode)

behavior noticed:
-no '3D' frame borders
-can scroll page
-can not scroll frames

[click to resize]
[click to lock] (did not try to resize, had no borders for reference)

behavior noticed:
-can not resize frames
the [pageheader] automatically resizes to smaller size - without the 'Wildcat! 6.2' text and wcpower.gif graphic; at www.winserver.com the text
and graphic remain, (had it not been for the graphics I may not have
noticed this right away to begin with)
-no '3D' frame borders
-can scroll page
-can not scroll frames

Site preference and options in opera v9.10 build 8679 (current version) are set for frames and scrollbars, styling.

Please advise...

--
Dave Gourd

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:04:21 -0400
From: HECTOR SANTOS
To: DAVE GOURD
Subject: Re: opera and wc frames
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1173711888.40.1173711534@winserver.com>
References: <1173711534.40.0@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 67

Opera has its pluses and its minus. It has problems with caching I
believe. If you turn it off, it seems to work better. Chris Wies and
others concur and experience the same type of things.

The one thing I see it do alot is show a blank login form page when you
try to log in. Hitting refresh MIGHT show it. We tried anything to tell
OPERA not to cache these, including adding META no-cache lines header
lines to the form page.

I'll take a better look at your comments below to see if there is
anything new we didn't know already. Off hand, I didn't think it had a problem with frames as I tried to use all three, IE, FF and OPERA during various phases of my work. I don't recall an Opera issue, but then again
, maybe the fact I had my caching off in Opera, it might have made it
behave better.

I'll check that, but I will say, there is NO answer for the LOGIN FORM
problem where it shows a blank page when using the COOKIE based
authentication method. Its fine in BASIC/DIGEST otherwise. I had
contacted the Opera people about this and got an initial inquery for a illustrative example which I gave them via WINSERVER.COM. But I have not
heard anything since.

--
HLS

DAVE GOURD wrote:

Odd Opera behavior seen at my location; is this problem opera bug, or in [wc] html, jscript, or css?

Anyone seen this else or is it just me?

looked at this on foxriver.net, winserver.com, beta.winserver.com
similar behavior with pre-previous wins build and current gamma

I did the following:
-open opera
-login (to site - i.e. beta.winserver.com)
-goto messaging or filing (use frame mode)

behavior noticed:
-no '3D' frame borders
-can scroll page
-can not scroll frames

[click to resize]
[click to lock] (did not try to resize, had no borders for reference)

behavior noticed:
-can not resize frames
the [pageheader] automatically resizes to smaller size - without the 'Wildcat! 6.2' text and wcpower.gif graphic; at www.winserver.com the text and graphic remain, (had it not been for the graphics I may not have
noticed this right away to begin with)
-no '3D' frame borders
-can scroll page
-can not scroll frames

Site preference and options in opera v9.10 build 8679 (current version) are set for frames and scrollbars, styling.

Please advise...

--
Dave Gourd

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:12:13 -0400
From: HECTOR SANTOS
To: DAVE GOURD
Subject: Re: opera and wc frames
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1173719536.40.1173711534@winserver.com>
References: <1173711534.40.0@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 98

Dave,

This is just a follow up.

I once again revisited the issue with OPEN and the cookie login form,
and for the life in me, NO MATTER what I tell it to do with CACHE 100% completely off, it still remembers it. I recall now this was the reason
why I wrote to the opera people. It doesn't not honor a "No Cache"
setup. Try it.

1) Go to http://www.winserver.com
2) Click with "Web Browser" option
3) You get the cookie-based login form.
4) Login and it goes to the support page.
5) Click the Logout option
6) You get the "thank you" page. Click the Home Link
7) you can the public page again (like step 1)
8) Click with "Web Browser" option

and you get a blank page.

If you hit F5 to refresh, then Opera MAY display the form.

There is NOTHING you can do with the caching that will fix this in
Opera. I can't figure it out.

I know its a cache issue because I explored putting a TICK value in the
/LOGIN url so that is different each time. Then it works because it
doesn't have the same URL.

Let me try that again, in my default.wct, simple change

/LOGIN?mode=html

to

/LOGIN?mode=html&ticks=@SUB TICKS@

lets see, YUP, works everytime. The different TICKS= value tells opera
its a different URL so obviously he doesn't have a CACHE for this, hence
it requests it again

That is a caching problem in Opera, especially when you turn it to not
use a CACHE.

In short, until this basic thing can be fixed in Opera, there is is
really not else that matter about how it behaves. Love to make it work,
but I'm not going to pull my hair with Opera so broken like this. I'm
not the only way who says this.

--
HLS





DAVE GOURD wrote:

Odd Opera behavior seen at my location; is this problem opera bug, or in [wc] html, jscript, or css?

Anyone seen this else or is it just me?

looked at this on foxriver.net, winserver.com, beta.winserver.com
similar behavior with pre-previous wins build and current gamma

I did the following:
-open opera
-login (to site - i.e. beta.winserver.com)
-goto messaging or filing (use frame mode)

behavior noticed:
-no '3D' frame borders
-can scroll page
-can not scroll frames

[click to resize]
[click to lock] (did not try to resize, had no borders for reference)

behavior noticed:
-can not resize frames
the [pageheader] automatically resizes to smaller size - without the 'Wildcat! 6.2' text and wcpower.gif graphic; at www.winserver.com the text and graphic remain, (had it not been for the graphics I may not have
noticed this right away to begin with)
-no '3D' frame borders
-can scroll page
-can not scroll frames

Site preference and options in opera v9.10 build 8679 (current version) are set for frames and scrollbars, styling.

Please advise...

--
Dave Gourd

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:14:39 -0400
From: DAVE GOURD
To: HECTOR SANTOS
Subject: Re: opera and wc frames
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1173719679.40.1173711888@winserver.com>
References: <1173711888.40.1173711534@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 89

I knew about some probs in opera, must have missed the comment about
the caching.

I just saw another weird thing with it - when in the frame mode (again with msg and file clients) if you click the resize link (which auto resizes the header, click again to lock, then click any other link (not in the header frame), the header resets to the original size.

I like opera for some things, but they also have some things I don't like, this

appears to be another.

--
D


On 2007-03-12 10:04 AM, HECTOR SANTOS wrote to DAVE GOURD:

Opera has its pluses and its minus. It has problems with caching I believe. If you turn it off, it seems to work better. Chris Wies and others concur and experience the same type of things.

The one thing I see it do alot is show a blank login form page when you
try to log in. Hitting refresh MIGHT show it. We tried anything to tell OPERA not to cache these, including adding META no-cache lines header
lines to the form page.

I'll take a better look at your comments below to see if there is
anything new we didn't know already. Off hand, I didn't think it had a problem with frames as I tried to use all three, IE, FF and OPERA during various phases of my work. I don't recall an Opera issue, but then again
, maybe the fact I had my caching off in Opera, it might have made it behave better.

I'll check that, but I will say, there is NO answer for the LOGIN FORM problem where it shows a blank page when using the COOKIE based authentication method. Its fine in BASIC/DIGEST otherwise. I had contacted the Opera people about this and got an initial inquery for a illustrative example which I gave them via WINSERVER.COM. But I have

not

heard anything since.

--
HLS

DAVE GOURD wrote:

Odd Opera behavior seen at my location; is this problem opera bug, or

in

[wc] html, jscript, or css?

Anyone seen this else or is it just me?

looked at this on foxriver.net, winserver.com, beta.winserver.com
similar behavior with pre-previous wins build and current gamma

I did the following:
-open opera
-login (to site - i.e. beta.winserver.com)
-goto messaging or filing (use frame mode)

behavior noticed:
-no '3D' frame borders
-can scroll page
-can not scroll frames

[click to resize]
[click to lock] (did not try to resize, had no borders for reference)

behavior noticed:
-can not resize frames
the [pageheader] automatically resizes to smaller size - without the 'Wildcat! 6.2' text and wcpower.gif graphic; at www.winserver.com

the text

and graphic remain, (had it not been for the graphics I may not have noticed this right away to begin with)
-no '3D' frame borders
-can scroll page
-can not scroll frames

Site preference and options in opera v9.10 build 8679 (current

version) are

set for frames and scrollbars, styling.

Please advise...

--
Dave Gourd

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:28:36 -0400
From: DAVE GOURD
To: HECTOR SANTOS
Subject: Re: opera and wc frames
Newsgroups: winserver.public.gamma.testing
Message-ID: <1173720516.40.1173719536@winserver.com>
References: <1173719536.40.1173711534@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 119

Just found out the same thing about the cache here (didn't know about the 'ticks' thing), caching seems rather intermittent in its behavior.

Don't waste your time, and I don't blame you for not messing with it for Opera's sake. Isn't a big issue for me at all, and only a few of my users/ visitors have it have - personally like Firefox and IE6 is more likeable now, v7
even more. I try to make all of my page coding optimal for those.

Too bad the governing bodies don't ride these guys to be more conforming
and compliant - would sure help in authoring!

--
D


On 2007-03-12 12:12 PM, HECTOR SANTOS wrote to DAVE GOURD:

Dave,

This is just a follow up.

I once again revisited the issue with OPEN and the cookie login form,
and for the life in me, NO MATTER what I tell it to do with CACHE 100% completely off, it still remembers it. I recall now this was the reason why I wrote to the opera people. It doesn't not honor a "No Cache"
setup. Try it.

1) Go to http://www.winserver.com
2) Click with "Web Browser" option
3) You get the cookie-based login form.
4) Login and it goes to the support page.
5) Click the Logout option
6) You get the "thank you" page. Click the Home Link
7) you can the public page again (like step 1)
8) Click with "Web Browser" option

and you get a blank page.

If you hit F5 to refresh, then Opera MAY display the form.

There is NOTHING you can do with the caching that will fix this in
Opera. I can't figure it out.

I know its a cache issue because I explored putting a TICK value in the /LOGIN url so that is different each time. Then it works because it doesn't have the same URL.

Let me try that again, in my default.wct, simple change

/LOGIN?mode=html

to

/LOGIN?mode=html&ticks=@SUB TICKS@

lets see, YUP, works everytime. The different TICKS= value tells opera its a different URL so obviously he doesn't have a CACHE for this, hence
it requests it again

That is a caching problem in Opera, especially when you turn it to not
use a CACHE.

In short, until this basic thing can be fixed in Opera, there is is
really not else that matter about how it behaves. Love to make it work, but I'm not going to pull my hair with Opera so broken like this. I'm
not the only way who says this.

--
HLS

DAVE GOURD wrote:

Odd Opera behavior seen at my location; is this problem opera bug, or

in

[wc] html, jscript, or css?

Anyone seen this else or is it just me?

looked at this on foxriver.net, winserver.com, beta.winserver.com
similar behavior with pre-previous wins build and current gamma

I did the following:
-open opera
-login (to site - i.e. beta.winserver.com)
-goto messaging or filing (use frame mode)

behavior noticed:
-no '3D' frame borders
-can scroll page
-can not scroll frames

[click to resize]
[click to lock] (did not try to resize, had no borders for reference)

behavior noticed:
-can not resize frames
the [pageheader] automatically resizes to smaller size - without the 'Wildcat! 6.2' text and wcpower.gif graphic; at www.winserver.com the

text

and graphic remain, (had it not been for the graphics I may not have noticed this right away to begin with)
-no '3D' frame borders
-can scroll page
-can not scroll frames

Site preference and options in opera v9.10 build 8679 (current version)

are

set for frames and scrollbars, styling.

Please advise...

--
Dave Gourd

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)